2014 11_Meeting_IRC_Log

11:00 < ibennetch> Welcome to the monthly phpMyAdmin developer meeting. I'll be posting the log of this meeting to the wiki shortly.
11:00 < Marc9> ibennetch thanks for running the meeting
11:00 < ibennetch> Our first topic is the progress towards 4.3.
11:00 < ibennetch> Marc9: You're welcome
11:00 -!- nisargjhaveri [~nisargjha@14.139.82.6] has joined #phpmyadmin
11:00 < Marc9> Madhura is not there?
11:00 -!- Irssi: #phpmyadmin: Total of 39 nicks [1 ops, 0 halfops, 0 voices, 38 normal]
11:01 < Marc9> I suggest to postpone item 1 in case Madhura shows up later
11:01 < ibennetch> No, I don't see him yet. Shall we skip ahead in the agenda for a few minutes?
11:01 < ibennetch> Great, agreed.
11:01 -!- madhuracj [~kvirc@112.134.80.135] has joined #phpmyadmin
11:01 < dstorm> Hi madhuracj
11:01 < ibennetch> Nevermind, we'll stick with item 1
11:01 < Marc9> Hi Madhura, we were talking about you ;)
11:01 < madhuracj> Hi everyone
11:02 < nijel> Hi Madhura
11:02 < madhuracj> Hope I am not too late
11:02 < ibennetch> Greetings madhuracj. We were just beginning discussion of the progress twoards 4.3
11:02 < ibennetch> Not at all:)
11:02 < Marc9> I believe that the mbstring issue is fixed
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11:02 < dstorm> I think so
11:02 < ibennetch> Last month there were two issues, 1) PMA_String slowdown and 2) performance with many databases.
11:03 < madhuracj> Yes I do not exprerience any significant delays anymore
11:03 < ibennetch> Great, where are we at with the performance problems with many databases?
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11:03 < madhuracj> I've done improvements for both root and
11:03 < madhuracj> non priviledged users
11:04 < Marc9> My opinion is that even if there are still things to work on, we could release 4.3.0-alpha
11:04 < madhuracj> I have also tested them with the test server provided by J.M.
11:04 < madhuracj> @Marc9 I quite agree with that
11:05 < Marc9> I thing there was an objection about db grouping in the navi panel?
11:05 < Marc9> think
11:05 < madhuracj> Well the issue there was that tha particular user had a db group with more than 4000 database and the delays are from php side trying to process such a big amout of databases
11:06 < madhuracj> Avoiding db grouping resolved the problem
11:06 < Marc9> But was the user happy with the suggestion?
11:06 < ibennetch> Is there some protection we can do to prevent that automatically?
11:07 < madhuracj> He sounded ok as far as he could use filters to reach dbs on other pages which is possible
11:08 < madhuracj> @ibennetch Do you mean something like showing a warning?
11:08 < Marc9> Ok, so any objection for 4.3.0-alpha soon?
11:08 < dstorm> No objection from my side
11:08 < madhuracj> No objection
11:08 < zixtor> I think as mb_ functions issue is resolved, I have no objection
11:09 < ibennetch> Showing a warning or disabling grouping automatically in this case. Something so the user knows that continuing with grouping might have performance problems. I'm not sure whether such a plan is reasonable.
11:09 < Marc9> Note that we won't open QA_4_3 immediately; this will be done only before -rc1.
11:09 < ibennetch> No objection from me, either -- the grouping issue isn't a blocker for me.
11:10 < ibennetch> So the release team will coordinate the release of 4.3.0-alpha shortly?
11:10 < nijel> I also think it's okay to release alpha now
11:10 < madhuracj> Showing a warning is possible, I will work on that
11:10 < Marc9> ibennetch yes
11:10 < ibennetch> So up next, the GSoC admin
11:10 < ibennetch> Anyone volunteer?
11:11 < dstorm> What's the role of GSoC admin?
11:11 < nijel> if nobody else is  interested I can do it again
11:11 < zixtor> I have no problem doing backup job, its just situationally needed job, also, I am happy if anyone else wanna take it tup
11:12 < nijel> besides handling registration it's mostly about supervising that everything goes well
11:12 < dstorm> Ok. thanks
11:12 < Marc9> dstorm you can Google for "Google summer of code mentor guide", there is a section about org admin
11:13 < ibennetch> It sounds like nijel is most interested; is this okay with you nijel ? With zixtor as a backup, assistant, or alternate as needed.
11:13 < Marc9> I am happy with Michal as the admin and Atul as the backup
11:14 < dstorm> Sounds good to me as well
11:14 < zixtor> Anyone else volunteering to be admin backup this year?
11:14 < nijel> I'm fine with that
11:14 < zixtor> Ok
11:14 < madhuracj> Im fine with that too
11:14 < ibennetch> I feel nijel does a lot of the small administrative tasks that add up to take considerable time, but as long as he doesn't mind this is fine with me.
11:14 < Marc9> Can the admin or backup continue to prepare the wiki pages?
11:15 < zixtor> Yes I think
11:15 < nijel> when we talk about GSoC, please don't hesitate to put anything you find appropriate on the ideas list
11:15 < Marc9> nijel: in fact I have an idea to discuss in this meeting
11:15 < ibennetch> Moving ahead, HHVM testing
11:16 < Marc9> About HHVM, we sometimes get from a third party patches,
11:16 < Marc9> so it would be interesting that a team member can test on HHVM
11:17 < nijel> ...but even if nobody can do that, we should at least try not to break existing tests with code changes.
11:18 < Marc9> nijel, you mean break for HHVM?
11:18 < nijel> yes (I know the current situation is slightly different that the breakages were introduced by changes on hhvm side)
11:18 < dstorm> I'll try to set up HHVM environment and if successful I can do the tests
11:19 < Marc9> how can I know before pushing, that a test will break under HHVM?
11:19 < Marc9> dstorm, thanks for volunteering
11:19 < ibennetch> This seems like something I can easily run in a virtual machine so I can try to install and do some tests when a ticket is reported.
11:19 < madhuracj> I believe travis perform tests on pull requests
11:19 < ibennetch> Great, thanks dstorm
11:20 < Marc9> madhuracj, but I don't want to do a pull request for each change
11:20 < zixtor> thanks @dstorm
11:20 < dstorm> Marc9: Travis also runs on repo clone we can check on our clone before pushing to actual repo
11:20 < Marc9> madhuracj, however I appreciate that you send pull requests for bigger / more challenging changes
11:20 < nijel> you can also test on your own repo - just enable travis on your repo and it will run the tests, once you're happy with the result you can push to official repo
11:21 < Marc9> Ok I see
11:21 < nijel> that's what I usually do for changes in travis setup, so that I can test them and see it works
11:21 < dstorm> nijel: same here :)
11:22 < ibennetch> Moving on to Scrutinizer, then?
11:23 < ibennetch> Anyone wish to take the role of reporting the issue to the upstream folks?
11:23 -!- chanaka777 [af9d8597@gateway/web/freenode/ip.175.157.133.151] has joined #phpmyadmin
11:23 < Marc9> About Scrutinizer, the number of issues has dramatically dropped; I believe they are changing their tests quite often
11:23 < Marc9> Hi Chanaka
11:23 < madhuracj> If nobody else want to do that, I can do the reporting
11:23 < chanaka777> Hi Marc
11:23 < madhuracj> Hi Chanaka
11:24 < chanaka777> Hi all
11:24 < Marc9> madhuracj, fine
11:24 < zixtor> Thanks @madhuracj
11:24 < ibennetch> Great, thank you madhuracj
11:25 < Marc9> Maybe they reacted to nijel's report about duplication
11:25 < ibennetch> Marc9: perhaps you can report to us about the Designer icon item?
11:26 < Marc9> ibennetch, well I thought that the item on the wiki page was pretty much detailed
11:26 < ibennetch> I think this is a good idea as presented. Currently it looks like a third party add on
11:26 < ibennetch> I would like to see it look more like our main pages as well.
11:26 < Marc9> it is a third party add on ;)
11:26 < ibennetch> Marc9: good point about the wiki page being pretty detailed, I guess there was no need for further explination :)
11:26 < ibennetch> Any objections to Marc's proposal?
11:27 < Marc9> So my suggestion is first about showing text + icons
11:27 < ibennetch> Who would make this change?
11:27 < Marc9> First, do we agree to postpone this kind of changes to version 4.4 ?
11:27 < dstorm> I agree.
11:27 < ibennetch> Which makes perfect sense, the text+icons should honor the setting for the rest of the application I would think
11:28 < madhuracj> Yes that makes sense
11:28 < Marc9> Then, there is the issue of the icon importance, therefore using levels for something like Options
11:29 < ibennetch> This also seems like a good plan. I agree with the proposal.
11:30 < ibennetch> If the next agenda item is approved as a GSoC project, I wonder if these two might go well together.
11:30 < Marc9> If this all makes sense, I'll create a feature request but will mark it for 4.4; we don't wish to play too much with master, now that 4.3.0  is near
11:30 < ibennetch> I agree that it's best for 4.4 as well
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11:31 < ibennetch> If there's no more discussion about the Designer interface, we can move on to the final item of Marc's GSoC idea
11:31 < ibennetch> also, just under 30 minutes remain in the meeting
11:32 -!- chanaka7777 [af9d8597@gateway/web/freenode/ip.175.157.133.151] has joined #phpmyadmin
11:32 < Marc9> So, how about a quick settings mechanism related to each page?
11:33 < nijel> I think its good idea
11:33 < zixtor> Sounds very useful
11:33 < chanaka7777> yes, it's good idea
11:33 < Marc9> I often find myself going back to Settings when I could do a small setting change from where I am
11:33 < dstorm> Sounds good but does that mean those settings will not be accessible from a central page as it is now?
11:34 < Marc9> I would keep the central page as well
11:34 < zixtor> Central page should be there as well
11:34 < nijel> I would also like this as an additional way to configure things
11:34 < madhuracj> I agree as well
11:35 < dstorm> Sounds good enough now
11:35 < Marc9> You see, the central page is where I would go if, for example, I change jobs and I want to set everything quickly
11:35 < dstorm> Marc9: yes, that was my concern.
11:35 < Marc9> Also, the central page would be the only place that supports importing/exporting from file and/or browser storage
11:36 < Marc9> Obviously it's quite a job to find, on each page, what is worth adding in the quick settings
11:37 < ibennetch> Yes, and creating a way to relate them programatically
11:37 < Marc9> In general, we will need a common icon on each page to convey the correct meaning of this feature to the user
11:37 < Marc9> Maybe the same icon as in the Settings top menu
11:37 < zixtor> Marc9 also wrote about integrating few other context specific settings into quick settings like column sorting
11:37 < ibennetch> Yes, I like that idea as well
11:38 < Marc9> zixtor, yes I was forgetting about this aspect
11:38 < ibennetch> Is this something for which you should create a feature request and we can collect all these thoughts there?
11:38 < zixtor> Browse page does have many such things
11:38 < Marc9> yes I'll open a feature request about this as well
11:38 < ibennetch> Also, would this take 12 weeks?
11:39 < Marc9> zixtor, there is also the complication that some of the "settings" changes on Browse are remembered in the session
11:39 < zixtor> yes true
11:39 < Marc9> I think it's rather a 5 or 6 weeks project
11:40 < ibennetch> Yeah, it seems like some other task should be added.
11:40 < Marc9> zixtor and we don't want to punish too much a  user that has no configuration storage
11:40 < ibennetch> But perahps the Browse page settings that are remembered in a session could be stored in configuration storage where possible?
11:41 < Marc9> Speaking of GSoC, will someone gather a list of feature requests suitable for a student?
11:41 < ibennetch> I think that when possible we should try to store all possible settings for a seamless user experience
11:41 < zixtor> About 12 weeks I think it will not be big enough
11:41 < zixtor> to cover whole 12 weeks
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11:42 < zixtor> I think it can be made a part of a bigger project having few other features to implement?
11:42 < Marc9> ibennetch, it depends if the change is intended for long-term or not; take the "show all" issue, for example (recently discussed in a bug ticket moved to RFE)
11:42 < ibennetch> Yeah, good point. I did see that
11:43 < ibennetch> I am concerned about GSoC this year -- with a full time developer, many of our ticket items are getting attention, leaving less for our GSoC students to do during the early application process.
11:43 < chanaka7777> I'll try to collect some suitable feature requests targettign gsoc
11:44 < Marc9> Who is interested to mentor a student about the quick settings idea + other stuff?
11:44 < zixtor> Well if you could lend this idea to me, if I dont end up evolving mine ;)
11:44 < ibennetch> Well, it was your idea so I think you get first choice, if not it is a project I would enjoy
11:44 < ibennetch> That's fine as well
11:45 < ibennetch> So anything further on the GSoC topic?
11:45 < Marc9> The point is, I already have added the parser idea in the list; this year it looks like we'll run out of ideas so I won't target to mentor 2 students
11:46 < zixtor> I think we still have a months time before GSoC ideas page will start getting students attention
11:46 < Marc9> Chanaka, please coordinate your list with the future GSoC for the settings idea
11:47 < chanaka7777> sure Marc
11:47 < Marc9> ibennetch, do you think that you'll get proposals for the Synchronization idea?
11:47 < zixtor> Will nijel be mentoring error reporting improvements this year as well?, I think I will add few requests to it
11:48 < ibennetch> I believe that's been an idea in the past and has gotten very little interest. I think it's worth including as an idea but don't have much hope for it.
11:48 < Marc9> zixtor, do you want to share your thoughts about your other idea?
11:49 < madhuracj> Implementing it in an efficient way would also be challenging
11:49 < Marc9> ibennetch I also have little hope about this idea
11:49 < nijel> zixtor: maybe, but we need to define scope quite well there as these would be quite many small things
11:49 < zixtor> Marc9: I think I will make a draft first
11:50 < Marc9> madhuracj, talking about Synchro?
11:50 < madhuracj> @Marc9 yes
11:50 < Marc9> madhuracj I agree
11:51 < zixtor> nijel: yes, many small ones, so will take time to pile up, but still enough to add up for a month
11:51 < zixtor> sorry for gsoc time
11:51 < Marc9> nijel, would error reporting improvements occupy a student for 12 weeks?
11:51 < zixtor> I think so
11:51 < ibennetch> Please refresh my memory -- visual improvements such as themes do not count for GSoC, correct?
11:51 < Marc9> correct
11:51 < nijel> I think so, but I need to go through possible features to implement first
11:51 < madhuracj> I think we badly need an upgrade in that department
11:52 < Marc9> madhuracj, badly?
11:52 < ibennetch> Eight minutes remain
11:52 < nijel> yes, that's something what would be nice to have, but does not count for GSoC...
11:52 < madhuracj> It's been a while we got a new theme
11:52 < zixtor> yeah right
11:53 < chanaka7777> agreed
11:53 < Marc9> you mean a theme included in the download kits?
11:53 < madhuracj> yes, and a good one we can adopt as one of the official themes
11:54 < Marc9> I am happy with pmahomme, what's wrong with it?
11:54 < ibennetch> I rather like the current theme
11:54 < madhuracj> INothing workng with that. I think I'm bit boarded with the current two themes
11:54 < madhuracj> wrong*
11:54 < zixtor> Marc9: people may like different colorings
11:55 < Marc9> madhuracj, this means we need new entries in the custom themes
11:55 < Marc9> zixtor, in fact, we would need a theme in the download kit, suitable for color-blind persons
11:55 < madhuracj> Marc9 Good point
11:55 < Marc9> and I would happily get rid of "original"
11:56 < zixtor> Yeah forgot about it
11:56 < chanaka7777> I wish if we could have a responsive theme, maybe with bootstrap
11:56 < Marc9> so we'll have to decide if we upgrade something like Paradice
11:57 < Marc9> Chanaka, it's using bootstrap very disruptive on our current code?
11:57 < Marc9> isn't
11:58  * Marc9 is hungry
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11:58 < zixtor> 2 minutes more I think
11:58 < chanaka7777> may be, I recently used that kind of application and getting impressed with that ;)
11:59 < Marc9> Chanaka, so it can be discussed in the next meeting but I'm afraid it would be too disruptive
12:00 < dstorm> maybe we have to move to MVC first to make phpMyAdmin themeable
12:00 < zixtor> Bye all, thanks for attending!
12:01 < chanaka7777> I really happy if we could
12:01 < zixtor> dstorm: yes I was thinking about same
12:01 < dstorm> Bye all
12:01 < Marc9> dstorm, we almost decided against MVC at the Berlin meeting (no volunteer)
12:01 < chanaka7777> Bye
12:01 < dstorm> Marc9: yeah, its indeed difficult to do with current codebase
12:01 < ibennetch> Thanks everyone for attending. Please feel free to stay and continue discussion if you wish, but I think we'll declare the official meeting over.
12:01 < dstorm> Marc9: it will be like writing PMA from scratch