2014 04_Meeting_IRC_Log

12:03 < ibennetch> Okay, good day. Thanks for your patience. First order, voting on reimbursements.
12:03 < ibennetch> Any discussion? This seems pretty straightforward.
12:03 < Marc9> Before voting, we should discuss about scholarship
12:04 < nijel> I'd prefer to buy tickets and skip scholarship
12:04 < Marc9> Me too
12:04 < ibennetch> This seems fine to me as well for the reasons previously mentioned
12:04 < zixtor> Fine for me as well
12:05 < Marc9> The price is 50 euros per member
12:05 < Marc9> with 2 free passes
12:05 < zixtor> So, we apply as team members
12:05 < Marc9> I'm not sure how to buy these extra passes, I'll keep you posted
12:06 < Marc9> I vote yes
12:06 < ibennetch> Yes as well
12:06 < zixtor> Yes
12:06 < chanaka777> me too yes
12:06 -!- ZweiSteinSoft [5f59d29f@gateway/web/freenode/ip.95.89.210.159] has joined #phpmyadmin
12:07 < ZweiSteinSoft> hi there
12:07 < ibennetch> Hello ZweiSteinSoft, we were just voting on whether to approve the 50 Euro ticket price per member for Linuxtag
12:08 < ibennetch> If we're ready to move on, next we're discussing the focus of our booth.
12:08 < Marc9> ok for me
12:08 < ZweiSteinSoft> We 3 get special disabled-tickets, already talked with Elke from the LinuxDay ticket service, so i'm not sure if we are allowed to vote with that :)
12:09 < Marc9> but the exhibitor passes are cheaper
12:09 < ibennetch> ZweiSteinSoft: Yes, that's great, the vote is just to approve the expense for Conservancy purposes.
12:09 < ZweiSteinSoft> Yes - for the 2 people managing the whole-day booth
12:09 < Marc9> No: 50 euros per additionnal member
12:10 < ZweiSteinSoft> Marc9: yes
12:10 < Marc9> let's move on
12:10 < ibennetch> So what is our focus? To me, it's mainly to have a presence for users.
12:11 < ibennetch> Though there may be developer interest, I think it's more likely to interact directly with users
12:11 < Marc9> Yes, it's to interact with users, mainly because there will be more users than developers there
12:11 < ZweiSteinSoft> why don't we mix the presentation for both groups? so it's interesting for everybody
12:12 -!- ibennetch-mobile [~ibennetch@166.170.23.157] has quit [Quit: Colloquy for iPhone - https://colloquy.mobi]
12:12 < Marc9> Hmmm, it will be demos for users, not about the internals!
12:12 < ibennetch> I agree with Marc about the focus of the demo
12:12 < nijel> Indeed demo should be for users
12:13 < ibennetch> Of course if developers wish to talk with us at the booth, we will be happy to visit with them, but I think our approach should be to interact mainly with users. Hear their feedback, get feature ideas, basically have a presense in the community
12:13 < ZweiSteinSoft> we can answer developers' questions - + we can present for users.
12:13 < nijel> I was more thinking about fact that we more need to attract new developers than users....
12:13 < Marc9> Agreed
12:14 < Marc9> nijel, yes but that's not a developer conference
12:14 < ZweiSteinSoft> :)
12:14 < Marc9> nijel, do you mean that we should focus our interaction with visitors, to ask for developers?
12:14 < chanaka777> nijel: agreed
12:15 < zixtor> we can still take any developer questions if any
12:15 < nijel> Marc9: I don't know to do that, sorry :-)
12:16 < chanaka777> why don't we put some interesting things for developers at last set of slides ?
12:16 < Marc9> For example, a user talks to us about a bug and we ask for a patch, telling them that it's community-driven
12:16 < chanaka777> way to contribute etc.
12:16 < ZweiSteinSoft> nijel: Let them look at the presentation, then the users will love to become devs :)
12:16 < Marc9> chanaka777: slides? what slides?
12:16 < chanaka777> in the oresentation
12:16 < zixtor> Marc9: presentation
12:16 < chanaka777> *presentation
12:17 < Marc9> hmm, it won't be like DebConf
12:17 < Marc9> people come and go, so we must just do demos IMO
12:18 < zixtor> Marc9: we will do demos on small screen or projector ?
12:18 < ZweiSteinSoft> short presentations where the people can interact without ruining the laptop
12:18 < Marc9> I have been doing this almost every year at MySQL conf
12:18 < ibennetch> Demos seem good, but we could certainly advertise that we're looking for developers somehow.
12:18 < ZweiSteinSoft> :)
12:18 < nijel> maybe we can have some video loop showing interesting features on the beamer...
12:19 < ibennetch> yeah, I was wondering about that also, nijel; a series of screenshots might be a good way to provide an overview then a demo can be done as needed
12:19 < nijel> so that there is something going on all the time to attract attention
12:19 < ZweiSteinSoft> think about that you need your country input plug -> German output plug, you can't get that in Germany, just the other way round, i've been looking for that already
12:19 < nijel> additionally somebody at the booth can show iterested guys demo on the laptop
12:20 < nijel> ZweiSteinSoft: not an issue for me, we have compatible plugs
12:20 < Marc9> I see. So the beamer would always show these screenshots but the person visiting would mainly interact with the member showing things from the non-beamer laptop
12:20 < ZweiSteinSoft> the beamer works over a laptop
12:20 < ZweiSteinSoft> :)
12:20 < nijel> I guess we will have more laptops there :-)
12:20 < Marc9> Who wants to prepare the screenshots?
12:21 < ibennetch> Marc9: you've been at more of these conferences than most of us; does that seem like a good plan?
12:21 < ZweiSteinSoft> nijel: We're bringing 2 with, but we have to work with them, too, with our work
12:21 < ibennetch> (or at least more than me)
12:21 < Marc9> ibennetch: definitely a good plan
12:22 < ZweiSteinSoft> interactive screenshots? - or slideshows?
12:22 < Marc9> a slideshow of screenshots from visually interesting features
12:23 < ibennetch> I could begin compiling that in approximately a week
12:23 < Marc9> I suggest we discuss on the team list, sending some screenshots for approval
12:23 < Marc9> I have a few ideas already
12:23 < ZweiSteinSoft> we've got flyers, too, and business cards, do we have a mail address where new ones can start with
12:23 < ibennetch> yeah, that seems better.
12:23 < ZweiSteinSoft> :)
12:23 < Marc9> Then ibennetch will compile the screenshots
12:24 < ZweiSteinSoft> okay, agreed
12:24 < nijel> okay
12:24 < ibennetch> Great
12:24 < chanaka777> fine
12:24 < Marc9> I think that 20 screenshots max is OK
12:24 < ibennetch> So flyers, business cards, etc -- here is a good place to advertise for developers as well as users
12:25 < ZweiSteinSoft> :)
12:25 < Marc9> we could create info-@phpmyadmin.net
12:25 < ZweiSteinSoft> give us the text for both, we'll get that by vistaprint.
12:25 < ZweiSteinSoft> Marc9: info@ is spam trap #1
12:25 < Marc9> (for the flyers and card)
12:25 < ibennetch> ZweiSteinSoft: As far as I know we don't have a mailing address
12:26 < ZweiSteinSoft> -in the moment, it's very busy in Germany with that
12:26 < ibennetch> Even if we do, I wouldn't put it on the flyers/cards
12:26 < Marc9> J.M. we can control what we receive as being spam or not
12:26 < Marc9> ibennetch why?
12:27 < ZweiSteinSoft> if they look at the website, they come to the mailing part, too, from themselves
12:27 < ZweiSteinSoft> :)
12:27 < ibennetch> Because it doesn't matter. No one is going to mail us anything, or visit our corporate offices.
12:28 < ibennetch> I don't have a _problem_ with putting an address, I just don't see a point to it\
12:28 < Marc9> ibennetch, I was talking about email
12:28 < ibennetch> Oh, yes, of course email is good.
12:28 < ZweiSteinSoft> e-mail address they find on the website, too
12:28 < ibennetch> Perhaps I misunderstood then -- my mistake. disregard what I said :)
12:29 < ibennetch> I think webpage and email address are both good to include
12:29 < Marc9> JM we don't have a general email, just references to mailing lists
12:29 < nijel> we can create some alias for our mailing list at @phpmyadmin.net
12:29 < ZweiSteinSoft> nijel: :)
12:29 < zixtor> nijel: good idea
12:29 < Marc9> Or let's just point them to the website, Contribute section
12:30 < ibennetch> info@phpmyadmin.net makes the most sense to me.
12:30 < Marc9> and this would go to ?
12:30 < zixtor> team list ?
12:30 < nijel> there is already team@phpmyadmin.net
12:30 < ZweiSteinSoft> phpmyadmin-users@...sf.net
12:31 < Marc9> the users list is closed
12:31 < ZweiSteinSoft> => users@phpmyadmin.net alias?
12:31 < Marc9> the team list is moderated
12:31 < Marc9> let's forget putting an email there
12:31 < ibennetch> team@ would make the most sense except the moderation issue
12:32 < Marc9> website mention is enough IMO
12:32 < zixtor> devel list should be ok as well
12:32 < Marc9> devel list: they have to subscribe
12:32 < zixtor> so we leave the email for now?
12:33 < ZweiSteinSoft> new email address = newuser@phpmyadmin.net, for all catches
12:33 < ZweiSteinSoft> redirecting to ibennetch as support guy anyways
12:33 < Marc9> I mean, if we receive such an email, we'll point them to the website, Contribute section anyway
12:33 < ibennetch> What if we set up a new actual email address info@phpmyadmin.net and someone (me, as the support person) would be responsible for checking and responding?
12:34 < zixtor> ibennetch: sounds good
12:34 < Marc9> ibennetch, ok but it should be for general inquiries, not for support itself IMO
12:34 < ibennetch> I agree
12:34 < ZweiSteinSoft> we've got at Mimboo (our art portal) support@mimboo.de, less spammy than info@
12:34 < ibennetch> (I just think I'm the person whose role most closely matches the new responsibility)
12:35 < ZweiSteinSoft> ;)
12:35 < Marc9> JM we ruled against email support at our last IRL meeting
12:35 < nijel> you will get support queries there as well, but hopefully it won't be that frequent..
12:35 < ZweiSteinSoft> answers via the stackoverflow
12:36 < ibennetch> Yeah, I can just redirect people to Stackoverflow politely. So are we agreed that it should be info@phpmyadmin.net and we can work out the details on devel- ?
12:36  * Marc9 is ready to move on
12:36 < Marc9> ok for me
12:36 < ibennetch> Banner graphics.
12:36 < Marc9> ibennetch, would the fixed price be 300 USD or 400 USD ?
12:36 < ZweiSteinSoft> ok for email
12:37 < ZweiSteinSoft> is that the cost just for the graphic, or for the graphic + roll-on banner?
12:37 < zixtor> just for designing I guess
12:37 < ibennetch> His rate is $300, plus he thinks there's an image he'd like to license from a stock photography business which would add to the cost.
12:37 < ibennetch> Yes, just for the design
12:38 < ibennetch> The price seems quite reasonable for me
12:38 < Marc9> I agree with these terms, but we need a proposal quick :)
12:38 < nijel> Looks okay to me
12:38 < ZweiSteinSoft> we've got 2 things: the banner + the stand-up like we sent on the list, or an other offer for a roll-together, but that cost 272.00 Euro
12:38 < zixtor> I dont have the idea, so ok for me as well
12:38 < Marc9> And J.M. said that Vistaprint supports full-color graphics
12:39 < ZweiSteinSoft> Marc9: right
12:39 < Marc9> ibennetch: however the goal is not to produce a new logo, agreed?
12:39 < nijel> we should use existing IMO
12:39 < ZweiSteinSoft> We have a logo, but is it big enough for the banner?
12:39 < ibennetch> Correct, it would incorporate the current phpMyAdmin logo, just in nice form on the banner.
12:40 < Marc9> ZweiSteinSoft: I would take the stand-up
12:40 < Marc9> ibennetch: plus some stuff to fill the banner :)
12:40 < ibennetch> exactly
12:40 < ZweiSteinSoft> Marc9: We thought so, because that's not so expensive. We just watch that the users don't run over it
12:41 < ibennetch> I believe he can quickly finish his proposal once I can send him dimensions of the banner and we approve his payment.
12:41 < ZweiSteinSoft> :)
12:42 < ZweiSteinSoft> How many pixels do you need for the whole banner?
12:43 < nijel> For the logo we can use things in data repo (pma_shirt folder contains it, it's just mixed with other stuff)
12:43 < Marc9> nijel, we have to take care, there are many logos there
12:43 < ibennetch> I'll check, but I believe the design will be vector-based, so number of pixels aren't relevant. Just the physical size of the resulting banner.
12:43 < ZweiSteinSoft> ;)
12:43 < ibennetch> Yes, I did look through the repo and wasn't sure which logo is the best to use
12:44 < Marc9> I'm not sure that we have in vector form, the one that's on phpmyadmin.net
12:45 < Marc9> This can be discussed on the team list; let's move on (15 minuts)
12:45 < Marc9> minutes
12:45 < ibennetch> So about my designer guy's work, any objections? Does his rate seem reasonable?
12:45 < Marc9> fine with me
12:45 < ibennetch> If we approve the expense today we can work out the rest later
12:45 < ZweiSteinSoft> .4181.8x76.1cm ==!== with nothing on the Sides...to cuting it = i just see, thier NOW less this week, it's for 15,49Euro
12:45 < nijel> I agree with his rates
12:45 < ibennetch> If people object, we'll also move on :)
12:46 < zixtor> Ok for me
12:46 < ZweiSteinSoft> Sorry = 181.8 x the rest
12:46 < ZweiSteinSoft> ;)
12:46 < ibennetch> Tickets -- we mostly covered this, but who should get the two free passes?
12:47 < ibennetch> Any difference between the free exhibitor passes and the paid ones?
12:47 < ZweiSteinSoft> we not....
12:47 < Marc9> ibennetch: about ordering the banner
12:47 < Marc9> everyone ok with J.M. ordering the banner, once the design is ready?
12:48 < nijel> okay for me
12:48 < zixtor> Fine for me
12:48 < ibennetch> yes
12:48 < ZweiSteinSoft> 75 dpi
12:48 < ZweiSteinSoft> we'll be waiting for the finished design.
12:49 < Marc9> I suggest that Michal and I get the free passes, and others order the exhibitor passes at 50 euros. I will have more info about how to order and I will order them if I can.
12:49 < ZweiSteinSoft> agreed
12:50 < zixtor> Fine for me
12:50 < Marc9> No scholarship as said previously; this way, we can help LinuxTag for their costs
12:50 < Marc9> Probably a 69 euros pass for J.M.'s father
12:50 < nijel> okay, let's get exhibitor passes for everybody
12:50 < ibennetch> Okay
12:51 < ZweiSteinSoft> I (Ann) am free = assistant from J.M.'s dad + J.M.
12:51 < Marc9> Ann, ok
12:51 < ZweiSteinSoft> J.M. has a disabled-pass too
12:52 < Marc9> but his disabled pass is 69 euros?
12:53 < ZweiSteinSoft> disabled-pass = German ID card for handicapped people, you normally can go with small trains, this time he needs a 50 euro ticket, because 50 is < 69 euro.
12:54 < Marc9> Fine.
12:54 < nijel> ok
12:54 -!- zixtor [31c90a11@gateway/web/freenode/ip.49.201.10.17] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds]
12:54 < Marc9> So I'll make sure that we know who orders which pass, once I get the info
12:54 < ibennetch> With six minutes left, it seems we should rush through the remaining items with haste and continue discussion on -devel
12:54 < ZweiSteinSoft> Marc9: you mean pass = ticket
12:55 -!- zixtor [3ba19a4c@gateway/web/freenode/ip.59.161.154.76] has joined #phpmyadmin
12:55 < Marc9> yes, LinuxTag ticket
12:55 < Marc9> ok, let's rush
12:55 < ZweiSteinSoft> :)
12:55 < nijel> okay, let's move on
12:55 < ibennetch> Room assignments
12:55 < Marc9> I don't mind about which roommate
12:55 < ZweiSteinSoft> thanks! the hotel must know that
12:56 < nijel> I don't mind as well :-)
12:56 < ibennetch> I have no preference. I propose that anyone who has a rooming preference state that on the -team mailing list and we can work it out randomly after that
12:56 < zixtor> Any roommate ok for me
12:56 < Marc9> Madhura is not here today
12:57 < ibennetch> (which is why we might continue this on -team)
12:57 < ibennetch> *might need to*
12:57 < zixtor> ok
12:57 < nijel> okay, let's solve this on team list
12:57 < Marc9> ibennetch, ok but let's express preferences soon (today or tomorrow)
12:57 < ibennetch> yes, seems good. I'll send a message
12:57 < ZweiSteinSoft> ibennetch: Thanks!
12:57 < ibennetch> Anyone for security coordinator?
12:58 < nijel> I can do it
12:58 < ZweiSteinSoft> :)
12:58 < zixtor> nijel: thanks :)
12:58 < Marc9> I agree with nijel, who has a good security wisdom
12:59 < ibennetch> I feel nijel already does much work, but is probably a very good choice for this
12:59 < ibennetch> So I don't object
12:59 < ZweiSteinSoft> Marc9: See Heartbleed fix :)
12:59 < ibennetch> 4.2 before GSoC?
12:59 < nijel> This is usually not that much work (unless you will introduce lot of security issues :-)).
12:59 < ibennetch> ha ha
13:00 < ibennetch> I think 4.2 shortly is  a good idea
13:00 < Marc9> Indeed, we must increase our security reviews
13:00 < zixtor> :)
13:00 < ZweiSteinSoft> :)
13:00 < nijel> releasing 4.2 early sounds like a good idea
13:01 < zixtor> 4.2 seems good idea.. we already heading towards 4.1.13
13:01 < ibennetch> nijel: can you add yourself to the webpage as security coordinator in the appropriate page?
13:01 < Marc9> So expect 4.2.0-alpha1 today !  and 4.1.13 this week-end
13:01 < nijel> ibennetch: okay, wil do so
13:01 < nijel> Marc9: I did not expect it that fast :-)
13:01 < ibennetch> Seems good to me. And one last matter, the multi-server actions.
13:01 < ZweiSteinSoft> ;9
13:01 < Marc9> it's only alpha
13:02 < zixtor> 4.2 alpha today, fine for me
13:02 < ZweiSteinSoft> thanks for your time, before you're all going
13:03 < ZweiSteinSoft> i'll be still reading
13:03 < ibennetch> I'm glad this user asked us before developing the work, and this seems like a good feature to include if we can keep it un-obtrusive. Perhaps it only appears in the interface when more than one server is enabled in config.inc.php. And we have to make sure it doesn't fail on, say, server 5 and continue without error message.
13:03 < nijel> alpha today is fine for me, I was just surprised
13:03 < ibennetch> But I am open to the idea
13:03 < Marc9> about multi-server action, this user talked about a "big" pull request
13:03 < ZweiSteinSoft> Marc9: what is 'big'?!
13:04 < nijel> I can imagine this can be intrusive, but it really depends how it will be integrated. Can he provide some small pull request so that we can see his approach?
13:04 < zixtor> Lets tell him to file the pull request first, but do we find the feature appropriate for PMA?
13:05 < Marc9> well, he did not want to spend much time preparing a pull request if we're not interested
13:06 < ZweiSteinSoft> Marc9: is it for an importer?
13:06 < ZweiSteinSoft> like for a shop?
13:06 < ZweiSteinSoft> for that you need a cross-over service.
13:06 < Marc9> See the meeting wiki page for details
13:06 < ibennetch> I think it may be best for him to send mockup screen shots so we can evaluate the impact on the code
13:07 < ZweiSteinSoft> ibennetch: :)
13:07 < nijel> I quite agree with ibennetch, we don't have much information to decide...
13:07 < Marc9> I will ask him about preparing a smaller PR for one of the features
13:08 < nijel> I think generally it fits, but it really needs to be implement in a way that will not disturb normal usage.
13:08 < ibennetch> But overall I am interested. These seem like features keeping in line with our mission of making MySQL administration easy
13:08 < ibennetch> yes, exactly nijel
13:08 < Marc9> ok, he will be encouraged by this
13:08 < zixtor> agreed ibennetch
13:08 < ibennetch> I think we could have input on the interface and seeing the screenshots will help us comment on that
13:08 < ZweiSteinSoft> agree, first looking what he's got
13:09 < nijel> okay, then I think we're done
13:09 < ibennetch> Thank you all for coming and staying to the end
13:09 < Marc9> Bye all, good afternoon / evening
13:09 < zixtor> Thanks all! Bye!
13:09 < ZweiSteinSoft> Good night + thanks!
13:09 < Marc9> ibennetch, do you have the log ?
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13:10 < ibennetch> Our next meeting is scheduled for May, but may be postponed due to LinuxTag.