2014 02_Meeting_IRC_Log

10:34 -!- You're now known as ibennetch
10:50 -!- Irssi: #phpmyadmin: Total of 27 nicks [1 ops, 0 halfops, 0 voices, 26 normal]
10:50 < ibennetch> In about ten minutes the monthly phpMyAdmin developer meeting will begin here.
10:56 -!- Netsplit *.net <-> *.split quits: glebihan_, harsz89
11:00 < Marc9> Hello !
11:00 < ibennetch> Hello Marc
11:00 -!- chanaka777 [cb3eaf04@gateway/web/freenode/ip.203.62.175.4] has joined #phpmyadmin
11:00 < ibennetch> Greetings chanaka777
11:00 -!- zixtor [~zixtor@59.161.139.237] has joined #phpmyadmin
11:00 < nijel> Hi everybody
11:00 < chanaka777> Hi
11:00 < zixtor> Hi all
11:01 < Marc9> Hi
11:01 < ibennetch> hello also to nijel and zixtor. Shall we begin?
11:01 < nijel> I think we can ... who will write the minutes?
11:01 < zixtor> yes please
11:02 -!- Netsplit over, joins: harsz89
11:02 < Marc9> I can write them if nobody else is willing
11:02 < ibennetch> I can do that today
11:02 < Marc9> ibennetch please do
11:02 < Marc9> Who wants to call the points
11:03 -!- glebihan_ [~glebihan@unaffiliated/glebihan] has joined #phpmyadmin
11:03 < ibennetch> I can also do that if you wish
11:03 < Marc9> ibennetch please do, but maybe we should start with shorter points
11:04 < ibennetch> Marc9: Do you have a preference on what to start with?
11:04 < Marc9> I suggest 2, 4, 5, 3 and 1
11:04 < nijel> sounds reasonable
11:04 < ibennetch> Fine by me. About removing Dieter, then
11:05 < ibennetch> Let us vote unless anyone has discussion.
11:05 < ibennetch> I vote to accept his resignation
11:05 < nijel> I also vote for accepting it
11:05  * Marc9 am in favor
11:05 < zixtor> I accept too
11:06 < ibennetch> chanaka777: Any vote from you on the matter?
11:06 < chanaka777> I agree too
11:06 < ibennetch> Meanwhile, then, item 4: dropping Synchonize data from the GSoC list
11:07 < ibennetch> I suppose that's fine by me.
11:07 < zixtor> I'm in favor of removing..
11:07 < nijel> I agree with dropping synchronization, IMHO it is too complex project for an average GSoC student
11:07 < Marc9> About this idea, since we have a shortage of mentors and the implementation for this idea is vague, I suggest to remove it
11:08 < chanaka777> fine by me
11:08 < ibennetch> I don't have much strong opinion on the matter. It's a huge project and we don't have a plan for implementing it, so I agree
11:08 < ibennetch> yes, excellent.
11:08 < ibennetch> LinuxTag hotel contract.
11:08 < Marc9> I talked too much about it, let's hear others :)
11:09 < ibennetch> Currently, there is the contract, but we're not sure how many rooms we'll need or whether we want that hotel. Any other thoughts?
11:09 < zixtor> To me, the contract seemed binding, and there seems no way around that booking without contract.. so i m okay to cancel it
11:10 < Marc9> Note that *we* did not sign any contract, so it's more a matter of telling the person who signed, that we would not reimburse it
11:10 < nijel> as long as we can cancel some rooms, I think we can keep it
11:10 < ibennetch> We'll need rooms, and JM is confident in both the quality of the hotel and that it will accomodate his needs. I have no problem staying there, my concern is about the number of rooms we might need
11:11 < zixtor> I have no problem with the hotel..
11:11 < Marc9> nijel: it's not clear that cancelling a few rooms is possible with this contract
11:11 < Marc9> I am also ok with staying at this hotel
11:12 < ibennetch> Could someone remind me how many rooms are currently in the contract?
11:12 < zixtor> 4
11:12 < Marc9> zixtor: it's 4 for the "rest of the team"
11:13 < Marc9> we only need 3 for the rest of the team
11:13 < zixtor> oh yes, there are two more i guess
11:13 < zixtor> 3 with Hugues and Issac ?
11:13 < Marc9> Hugues won't come
11:14 < ibennetch> I will probably be able to come but haven't yet confirmed the time off of work.
11:15 < Marc9> I read in some thread that the hotel would want to renegociate the rates if a room is canceled
11:15 < ibennetch> So in the event I'm not able to, we should be able to adjust the room count
11:15 < zixtor> so If Issac doesnt come we will need 2 double rooms only
11:15 < Marc9> zixtor, nope, 3
11:15 < nijel> I pretty much don't mind which hotel it would be, so I'd prefer not to put more burden on JM. Though I don't like the way they did handle the reservation.
11:16 < zixtor> sorry.. 3.. i m confused
11:16 < Marc9> nijel: so we tell them that they should try to remove one room from the contract?
11:16 < ibennetch> So regardless we are looking at only 3 rooms at this time, I believe. So I propose we reach out to Ann and JM again, ask them to see what the hotel would charge to remove one room from the contract
11:17 < zixtor> ibennetch, yes right
11:17 < nijel> yes
11:17 -!- ronaldsmazitis [~quassel@84.237.249.24] has joined #phpmyadmin
11:17 < ibennetch> Here, sometimes the right to renegotiate a rate is put in a contract but isn't always enforced, so they may not change the rate (or it may still be reasonable)
11:17 < Marc9> yes, and if it's not possible, they should cancel the contract, or pay the difference themselves
11:18 < ibennetch> Yes, that seems reasonable, provided we are confident we can book enough rooms elsewhere
11:18 < Marc9> Michal and I separately booked a "backup" room  (cancellable)
11:19 < zixtor> What about credit card and per person deposit? If i remember it was for everyone
11:19 < nijel> I'm pretty sure we can find rooms elsewhere in Berlin in case it's needed.
11:19 < ibennetch> Then unless anyone has anything further, I believe we have reached a decision. Who can contact Ann and JM?
11:20 < Marc9> zixtor, do you think that the contract is the reason for this?
11:20 < zixtor> I mean the contract conditions didn't just have the cancellation clause, there were many other clauses too
11:20 < nijel> zixtor: the deposit differs from hotel to hotel and some even don't require it
11:20 < zixtor> I'm not sure if thats the standard in every hotel
11:20 < nijel> but it's quite usual in Germany
11:21 < Marc9> so, probably a deposit needed, contract or no contract
11:22  * Marc9 sees mynetx in this room
11:23  * Marc9 can contact Ann + J.M.
11:23 < Marc9> (on the team list)
11:24 < ibennetch> Sounds good to me. Anything further on the hotel?
11:24 < ibennetch> What about LinuxTag in general -- any further discussion about a banner, beamer, booth?
11:25 < Marc9> yes, I have something to say
11:25 < Marc9> We can either have a booth, or just a meeting place with our users
11:25 < Marc9> (I mean, *ask* for a booth)
11:26 < nijel> meeting place would be less work for us, but also (probably) less visibility
11:26 < Marc9> We know that I agreed to man a booth and Michal accepted to help; what about others?
11:26 < Marc9> yes, less visibility indeed
11:27 < zixtor> I can also help with the booth
11:27 < Marc9> Great!
11:27 < ibennetch> Of course if I'm there I'll help as well. I'm concerned about having enough people present to fully man the booth, though.
11:28 < Marc9> I agree to man the booth most of the time
11:28 < nijel> I think always having two people there would work
11:28 < ibennetch> Of course the more the better
11:29 < Marc9> ibennetch, it depends on how much space there is in the booth
11:29 < ibennetch> Okay, sounds good, so we're agreed to try to get a booth?
11:29 < Marc9> ok for me
11:29 < nijel> ok
11:29 < chanaka777> yes
11:29 < zixtor> ok
11:29 < Marc9> I am monitoring the Call for Projects and will keep you posted
11:30 < ibennetch> Great, so I think we're done with LinuxTag for now. Lots of details remain to be resolved (beamer, banner, computers to use, etc) but those can be handled on the mailing list unless someone speaks up now
11:30 < zixtor> Marc9, thanks
11:30 < nijel> ibennetch: I agree, these can be discussed once we know whether we will get a booth
11:30 < ibennetch> Next up, mobile version
11:31 < Marc9> About this, I started a thread on phpmyadmin-devel but there were just a few replies
11:31 < ibennetch> I haven't seen much interest, although the new theme/design by Edward Chen is interesting
11:31 < Marc9> and none of them sounded like Oh yes, we need that
11:31 < ibennetch> Though too much deviation from our normal look, as noted by Marc.
11:31 < ibennetch> I agree with Marc9, it seems there's little interest in a mobile version.
11:31 < nijel> For this, my position still holds: it might be useful, but not worth of it IMHO
11:31 < chanaka777> I also don't see that much of interest as well as practical usage of this
11:31 < ibennetch> We should do what we can to be mobile friendly, but I agree with nijel that it's too much work at this time
11:32 < nijel> ibennetch: our current theme is also too much deviation from our normal look to many users :-
11:32 < Marc9> nijel, but at least it looks like phpMyAdmin ;)
11:33 < nijel> Marc9: as long as you put the logo somewhere, it will look so :-)
11:33 < Marc9> nijel, not sure of that...
11:33 < ibennetch> So for now we agree to table the mobile version? It can remain an open feature request, perhaps, but no one will work on it at this time.
11:34 < zixtor> current theme is fine for me..
11:34 < Marc9> ibennetch, exactly
11:34 < zixtor> ibennetch, agreed
11:34 < ibennetch> I think there are features we can adapt, but over all I didn't really care for Edward's proposal.
11:35 < Marc9> zixtor, for me too; there was a complaint that we don't have a color-blind friendly theme in the default kit, however
11:35 < Marc9> ibennetch, yes, it looked like another product IMO
11:35 < zixtor> Marc9, not sure about color-blind friendliness ;)
11:36 < chanaka777> Marc9 : exactly
11:36 < Marc9> zixtor, we can discuss it during LinuxTag
11:36 < ibennetch> There are several types of colorblindness, so creating a version to make everyone happy may be difficult. But we should try
11:37 < ibennetch> Perhaps the complainer can make a few suggestions...
11:37 < zixtor> right, we can add mobile version to meeting agenda at LinuxTag
11:37 < Marc9> ibennetch, the darkblue-orange seemed fine to this person
11:37 < ibennetch> So the last thing on the agenda is separate logic and template
11:37 < zixtor> I think sql console is very color blind..
11:38 < Marc9> We have old threads in the devel list about templating
11:38 < Marc9> I didn't even dare to read them again :(
11:39 < ibennetch> :)
11:40 < Marc9> To be frank, I don't believe we should go this way
11:40 -!- zixtor [~zixtor@59.161.139.237] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
11:40 < ibennetch> I don't see a big advantage at this point. Sure, if we were starding from 0 lines of code, it would be the best way to go, but the development effort involved in transitioning us to a template system seems like it would better be spent elsewhere.
11:41 < nijel> I quite agree with ibennetch here...
11:42 < Marc9> We already have a database interface library, so at least some parts of the "logic" is there
11:43 < nijel> there really don't seem to be anybody strongly advocating this...
11:43 < Marc9> apart from J.M.
11:43 < chanaka777> if I'm not misaken this is kind of achieve MVC ?
11:44 < Marc9> chanaka777, yes
11:44 < ibennetch> Plus the two students with refactoring last year, we've achieved some good results with cleaning up the code base (IMHO).
11:44 < chanaka777> so why don't we try this ?
11:44 < Marc9> ibennetch, indeed
11:45 < chanaka777> this is a best practice to use
11:45 < chanaka777> since we don;t use any php frameworks in phpmyadmin we better try to achieve this with pure php itself
11:45 < Marc9> chanaka777; just thinking about the steps to transition to this makes me dizzy
11:46 < chanaka777> yes, I agree. But we can discuss a design ?
11:46  * Marc9 is not familiar enough with MVC
11:47 < Marc9> or with transitionning an existing codebase to it
11:47 < ibennetch> I'm okay with discussing it; if someone is interested in slowly implementing it that's okay but that won't be me :)
11:47 < Marc9> the point it, can it be slowly implemented?
11:49 < ibennetch> chanaka777: Do you have the answer to that? I suspect the rest of us aren't that familiar with MVC designs
11:49 < chanaka777> We don't need to implement from the beginning. I believe we can reuse most of the things in existing code base
11:50 < chanaka777> ibennetch : we can discuss a design first
11:50 < chanaka777> if we are willing to go with that
11:51 < ibennetch> Frankly I don't know enough to be much help in this discussion. If you're interested in this, I'll listen to your design and try to help with it, and I may try to help with the code, but I am not in a position to decide whether it's worth doing.
11:52 < nijel> chanaka777: can you come up with some proposal?
11:53 < ibennetch> We have seven minutes remaining, so we should begin wrapping up this discussion
11:54 < chanaka777> nijel : sure. I'll prepare and put in the mailing list
11:54 < Marc9> Michal, any news about the GSoC application?
11:54 < Marc9> (reducing to three mentors)
11:56 < ibennetch> Four minutes remaining
11:56 < ibennetch> chanaka777: thank you, I look foward to seeing your proposal
11:57 < nijel> Marc9: I did update it
11:57 < nijel> chanaka777: thanks for doing that
11:57 < Marc9> nijel, thanks
11:58 < Marc9> I must say that it looks like we'll get a lot of proposals
11:58 < Marc9> About the contest, we already have four winners; is everybody ok with my "hat" principle for the special prize?
11:59 < ibennetch> Yes
11:59 < nijel> okay for hat
12:00 < ibennetch> If there's nothing else, I invite you to review the minutes at https://wiki.phpmyadmin.net/pma/2014-02_Meeting and let me know if there are any problems.
12:00 < Marc9> Thanks ibennetch for conducting the meeting and for the minutes
12:00 < nijel> thanks and good bye
12:00 < Marc9> what about the log?
12:00 < ibennetch> Is anyone else quickly able to post the IRC log? I can do it myself later without much hassle, but it might take an hour or two
12:01 < ibennetch> Marc9: my pleasure (really)
12:02 < ibennetch> Since no one has spoken up, I can do the log as well. It should be up within a few hours at most
12:02 < Marc9> ibennetch, later would be fine, thanks
12:02 < ibennetch> Happy Wednesday to you all
12:02 < Marc9> bye all !
12:02 < chanaka777> bye
12:02 < ibennetch> At this time the meeting is over, thank you all. The room is returned to business as usual, whatever that may be :)