2014 01_Meeting_IRC_Log

(11:00:48) Marc9: Meeting starts, welcome to everyone
(11:01:02) Marc9: Item 1, team membership
(11:01:50) Marc9: I am in favor of Michal's proposal; at first I was not sure about commit access,
(11:01:59) zixtor [~zixtor@14.142.34.139] a rejoint le salon.
(11:02:06) Marc9: but with github, pull requests are easy to do and to deal with.
(11:02:21) madhuracj: I am also in favor of Michal's proposal
(11:02:40) Marc9: See https://wiki.phpmyadmin.net/pma/2014-01_Meeting
(11:02:40) chanaka777 [cb3eaf04@gateway/web/freenode/ip.203.62.175.4] a rejoint le salon.
(11:02:40) nijel: The main motivation for me was simplicity - we're small team, so bringing in more levels is IMHO not

needed.
(11:02:55) Marc9: Hi Atul and Chanaka
(11:03:03) chanaka777: Hi
(11:03:03) madhuracj: @nijel Indeed
(11:03:11) zixtor: Hi all, sorry I'm late
(11:03:25) mynetx: Simplicity ftw.
(11:03:29) Marc9: We are at item 1, team membership
(11:04:01) Marc9: Any objection for Michal's proposal?
(11:04:11) ibennetch: I think that approach is good as well.
(11:06:04) Marc9: Depending on item 2, we would accept new members only once per month...
(11:06:31) Marc9: Item 1 is accepted.
(11:06:45) Marc9: Item 2: committee voting rules
(11:07:10) zixtor: I'm okay with voting on IRC
(11:07:36) nijel: for me IRC is okay as well
(11:07:37) mynetx: I'm okay with voting on IRC, if one can send a proxy vote in beforehand to somebody.
(11:07:38) madhuracj: Any other opinions?
(11:07:58) ibennetch: Either is fine by me, in the event someone is not able to make the IRC meeting I do think it's better

to vote after the meeting
(11:08:12) ibennetch: As there can be further discussion that might affect their vote
(11:08:43) ibennetch: But so far the early proxy vote has worked fine so maybe I'm wrong about that anyway
(11:08:44) madhuracj: Voting in IRC is ok for me as well
(11:09:11) Marc9: I think that someone also said that we should trust the vote done on IRC, unless we don't have the quorum
(11:09:31) nijel: okay
(11:10:01) Marc9: I would like to be able to call an email vote between meetings, however.
(11:10:18) ibennetch: Seems fine
(11:10:20) zixtor: Marc9, fine by me
(11:10:58) nijel: indeed email vote is always possible
(11:10:59) Marc9: but let's say that normal votes will be done during the meeting
(11:11:20) chanaka777: Does it valid only untill the IRC meeting going on ?
(11:11:37) Marc9: ?
(11:11:46) chanaka777: email vote ?
(11:12:11) zixtor: chanaka777,  email vote is between two meetings..
(11:12:14) Marc9: It would be valid by itself
(11:12:27) Marc9: no need to revote at the next meeting IMO
(11:13:12) chanaka777: fine by me
(11:13:20) nijel: okay
(11:13:42) zixtor: next item ?
(11:13:46) Marc9: Item 3
(11:14:06) Marc9: Vote to accept Rouslan Placella's resignation
(11:14:17) Marc9: Say yes or no
(11:14:32) Hugues_: yes
(11:14:42) Hugues_: (Sorry, little bit late...)
(11:14:42) Marc9: Yes
(11:14:44) pipelineaudio_ [~pipelinea@75.95.236.198] a rejoint le salon.
(11:14:50) zixtor: Yes
(11:15:08) chanaka777: No
(11:15:10) pipelineaudio a quitté le salon (quit: Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
(11:15:34) madhuracj: Yes
(11:15:35) mynetx: yes.
(11:15:37) Hugues_: Is it time to ask why ?
(11:15:41) nijel: yes
(11:15:52) nijel: Hugues_: basically lack of time
(11:16:54) Marc9: I think we should add a point at the end of meeting: about how to remain a team member
(11:17:07) Hugues_: No, I mean: Why no ?
(11:17:19) Marc9: So, Rouslan's resignation is accepted (majority)
(11:17:31) mynetx: Marc9: Point: Definitely agreed. Can we have a Wiki page for that, too?
(11:17:43) Hugues_: R
(11:17:52) Marc9: Vote to accept Hugues Peccatte in the team
(11:17:55) Hugues_: Ok with you, Marc9 .
(11:18:06) Marc9: Yes to Hugues
(11:18:28) nijel: yes
(11:18:36) chanaka777: yes
(11:18:42) zixtor: Yes, welcome Hugues_
(11:18:55) ibennetch: Yes to Hugues_
(11:18:56) madhuracj: Yes
(11:19:15) Marc9: Hugues accepted
(11:19:31) Hugues_: Thanks a lot !
(11:19:47) ibennetch: Welcome ;-)
(11:19:51) Marc9: Vote for Piotr Przybylski as team member
(11:20:05) Marc9: No: he contributes too infrequently
(11:20:56) Marc9: (he was a GSoC student for three years)
(11:21:11) zixtor: No, haven't seen him in my time
(11:21:28) mynetx: I once even had to ask Marc why he has commit access
(11:21:28) madhuracj: FIrst of all has shown interest in joining the team?
(11:21:43) nijel: no, though this means removing him commit access, what might even lower his motivation to contribute...
(11:21:58) Hugues_: No : never see him... :/
(11:22:48) Marc9: nijel, well we can point him to this team meeting's decisions about the commit access only for team

members
(11:22:49) madhuracj: @nijel with github and pull requests I think we no longer need to give commit access to people

outside the team
(11:22:54) zixtor: Pull requests may be the way
(11:23:28) madhuracj: For the record No from me
(11:23:34) mynetx: We will see if Piotr sends pull requests
(11:23:36) nijel: I agree that it's not a big barrier
(11:24:10) Marc9: I don't think we ever asked him to be a team member, because after GSoC he did not continue regularly
(11:24:19) ibennetch: I tend to agree, his contributions are welcome but he is infrequent at the moment.
(11:24:57) Marc9: Ok, decision has been done: Piotr will lose commit access
(11:25:04) Hugues_: https://github.com/Crack Just to see how regular he is.
(11:25:17) Marc9: Item 4, Light version/mobile
(11:25:50) Marc9: Any opinions about this?
(11:26:22) zixtor: I dont see a direct relation at the moment, between a 1484 and mobile version..
(11:27:06) Hugues_: This version would be only a read-only access ?
(11:27:07) Marc9: What is 1484 ?
(11:27:17) zixtor: https://sourceforge.net/p/phpmyadmin/feature-requests/1484/
(11:27:18) Hugues_: The feature request.
(11:27:18) ibennetch: On this matter, I'm not sure. We certainly want to appeal to the widest audience, but try to do

system administration from my tablet is not ideal.
(11:28:21) chanaka777: yes, we need to identify real use of this
(11:28:22) zixtor: Maybe we could hav a GSoC  project for this
(11:28:24) Marc9: mynetx you suggested this, any opinion?
(11:28:48) nijel: I'm also not convinced about need for mobile version
(11:28:51) mynetx: How many users really use advanced features like Designer or PDF export?
(11:29:29) mynetx: [leaving in 3m]
(11:29:52) Marc9: mynetx I bet not many users know about these features
(11:29:54) ibennetch: Can we improve things by having a mobile theme?
(11:30:31) ibennetch: Without making major changes to the code base, perhaps we could implement a team with larger buttons

and perhaps not displaying some features.
(11:30:45) ibennetch: Though I am quick to point out that I do not know how feasible that is
(11:30:54) zixtor: we could many other features for mobile version, like monitor, GIS
(11:30:57) Marc9: Let's say that a student has a good idea about this. Who could mentor this project (not me) ?
(11:31:00) zixtor: *we could drop
(11:31:25) Hugues_: Maybe we could use twitter bootstrap ? ...
(11:31:37) Hugues_: So we would have responsive design...
(11:31:38) mynetx: Hugues_ Good idea imo.
(11:31:54) mynetx: Can you add this to the Mobile_version wiki page?
(11:32:41) nijel: using bootstrap might be good option
(11:32:54) Marc9: The main reason I am not convinced about a mobile version, is just the amount of data to display when

browsing a table, for example
(11:33:05) ibennetch: I would be interested in mentoring but am not familiar with "twitter bootstrap"
(11:33:39) zixtor: I'm not familiar either
(11:33:39) ibennetch: Yes Marc9  I agree
(11:34:16) Marc9: But again, I am happy when visiting the mobile version of wikipedia (however it's not tabular data)
(11:34:23) mynetx: [off]
(11:34:42) mynetx: We may delay this discussion further, if we need more clarification/research?
(11:35:12) Marc9: Well, we must not wait too much, GSoC ideas page is waiting for us ...
(11:35:32) Hugues_: I think that would be a huge work I think.
(11:35:48) Hugues_: How long is the GSoC please ?
(11:36:04) Marc9: A good point: does it fit within the 12-week ?
(11:36:08) ibennetch: Perhaps in the coming days we can discuss on the mailing list but time is dwindling
(11:36:44) zixtor: We may start a thread on devel with priority discussion
(11:36:48) Marc9: Ok, let's continue the discussion on the devel list. Anyway we might have more suggestions there
(11:36:51) ibennetch: Perhaps we should add it to the ideas page and then evaluate any proposals that come in based on the

work they propose.
(11:36:52) Hugues_: 3 months, maybe, with someone working all the time on this improvement.
(11:36:56) nijel: I think it's doable withing 12 weeks, but the student would need existing knowledge of bootstrap
(11:37:28) Marc9: ibennetch: we might do it but frankly I am not in position to clarify eventual questions about this

subject
(11:38:02) Marc9: Let's change subject?
(11:38:12) ibennetch: Agreed to move on
(11:38:32) Marc9: Item 5, how to remain a team member :)
(11:39:03) Marc9: There was discussion about how "active" someone has to be
(11:39:27) Marc9: About voting on this, possible suspicion climate
(11:39:33) zixtor: Marc9,  Yeah, but the participation in discussion was rather low..
(11:41:02) Marc9: Is it enough to mention that regular activity is needed to remain a member?
(11:41:12) Marc9: *is requested*
(11:41:13) zixtor a quitté le salon (quit: Read error: Connection reset by peer)
(11:41:31) madhuracj: Well, I'd love to have a way of quantifying "active". But I bet we will never be able to do that.
(11:42:35) zixtor [~zixtor@14.142.132.230] a rejoint le salon.
(11:43:04) Marc9: madhuracj, yes; it's more subjective that that. It includes participation in the mailing list, commits,

help on stackoverflow, infrastructure work (which is more hidden), etc
(11:43:18) Marc9: *than that*
(11:43:30) madhuracj: Indeed
(11:43:31) nijel: I think it's better to decide this case by case, providing strict rules might just lead to making

exceptions as it's really hard to measure activity in all areas
(11:43:53) Marc9: Can we discuss Dieter's case now?
(11:43:57) madhuracj: @nijel Yes
(11:44:14) ibennetch: I tend to give some leeway because I realize people can get busy while still remaining involved, but

I don't have a way to quantify "active"
(11:44:15) ibennetch: Lines of code are a poor metric, number of commits can be skewed due to using more commits where

fewer would do, etc.
(11:44:15) ibennetch: I guess what's best is to evaluate as a team on an ongoing basis if someone is participating less

than expected.
(11:44:26) Hugues_: Like you said, this is a small team... Do we need to quantify ? Can't we decide for each case ?
(11:44:36) madhuracj: If we can promote an environment where members would voluntarily step down when they do not have time

it would be best IMO
(11:44:55) Marc9: madhuracj, that's what I told Hugues in a private mail ;)
(11:45:00) zixtor: madhuracj, agreed
(11:45:05) Hugues_: I agree with this, madhuracj .
(11:45:52) chanaka777: me too
(11:45:59) Marc9: madhuracj, but apparently the climate is not there yet (or not for everyone)
(11:46:13) nijel: I see this as best approach
(11:46:50) zixtor: Now, there can be different personal versions of "how much can I contribute"
(11:47:37) madhuracj: When voluntarary stepping down is not happening I think we can vote on IRC.
(11:48:20) chanaka777: yes that option is reasonable
(11:48:41) Hugues_: Maybe we could think to warn people, when they are not active enough anymore.
(11:48:41) madhuracj: But I'm afraid this might have negative impact on the person(s) whose bringing the topic to agenda
(11:49:12) Marc9: madhuracj, yes, so zixtor suggested that this should be the duty of the two project admins
(11:49:19) zixtor: Indeed, a climate of suspicion as said by dieter
(11:49:34) Hugues_: Warn, and concerned people should think : Am I still involved or not ?
(11:49:45) madhuracj: @Hugues I'd reword it as "Asking whether they are really busy these days" :)
(11:50:12) zixtor: madhuracj, thats nicer :)
(11:50:15) Hugues_: Yes, but how long are the days ?
(11:50:25) ibennetch: I tend to think a private vote may be better in this case
(11:50:25) ibennetch: But either way someone from the team would first need to bring the matter to the person (and team's)

attention
(11:50:25) ibennetch: Giving them an opportunity to step up or step down (contriuvt more or resign)
(11:50:26) ibennetch: *contribute*
(11:50:27) Hugues_: If you are busy for 6 months...
(11:50:55) Hugues_: ibennetch: Agreed ! :)
(11:50:58) zixtor: We must have a secret ballot for any such vote
(11:51:15) madhuracj: @ibennetch: agreed
(11:51:20) Marc9: ibennetch: that's what I did, to the persons first; I got one negative reaction and one positive
(11:51:53) Hugues_: zixtor: ok, let's try. Private system should exist.
(11:52:27) Marc9: Hugues, that's why I suggested a third party to receive such kind of vote
(11:52:46) ibennetch: So I think for a process we are developing and learning to do as a group that we are doing the right

things.
(11:53:31) ibennetch: In the case a vote is needed I hope Conservancy would help; it just means counting votes. They

wouldn't need to evaluate any one's involvement for us.
(11:53:31) zixtor: Marc9,  Project admins could also do that in my opinion, if they are the ones to initiate the voting..
(11:54:03) Marc9: ibennetch and zixtor: both good suggestions
(11:54:06) ibennetch: Ah zixtor has a good point
(11:55:05) ibennetch: Still I think involving Conservancy for vote counting will be best
(11:55:22) ibennetch: That way it lifts any burden or suspicion.
(11:55:35) Marc9: I agree with involving Conservancy
(11:55:39) nijel: Indeed, using Conservancy is good idea
(11:55:51) zixtor: Should we ask Conservancy ?
(11:55:59) Hugues_: We could ask if they would agree.
(11:56:00) zixtor: if they could help us with such a thing
(11:56:20) madhuracj: @zixtor: i feel we can wait till the need arises
(11:56:33) madhuracj: Im being hopeful that this wouldnt be needed ever
(11:56:37) Hugues_: Sorry, I've to go. Bye.
(11:56:52) zixtor: madhuracj, agreed
(11:56:58) Marc9: Bye Hugues
(11:57:22) Hugues_ a quitté le salon (quit: Quit: Page closed)
(11:57:28) Marc9: Can we add a short item 6: LinuxTag 2014 ?
(11:57:38) Marc9: Three minutes....
(11:57:53) zixtor: I'm there for 5 minutes
(11:57:53) madhuracj: Fine by me
(11:57:56) Marc9: I would like a team meeting there and I am available
(11:58:15) madhuracj: I am also in favor
(11:58:46) ibennetch: There was a question from Marc "Can we discuss Dieter's case now?" -- did we do that already?
(11:59:09) Marc9: ibennetch: there was no interest, I assume
(11:59:24) ibennetch: Also LinuxTag seems like a great location; I'm not certain whether I can get time off of work but

either way think its an ideal location
(11:59:27) zixtor: Dieter case?
(11:59:53) zixtor: LinuxTag is ok by me
(12:00:02) Marc9: Dieter's case: does his reduced involvement count as remaining a team member
(12:00:05) whod a quitté le salon
(12:00:13) nijel: LinuxTag is okay for me.
(12:00:28) ibennetch: (I didn't want to distract from the other discussion but also didn't want to forget it.)
(12:00:48) chanaka777: LinuxTag ok for me as well
(12:01:10) Marc9: So I believe that LinuxTag is accepted, yeah!
(12:01:18) zixtor: yes
(12:01:24) zixtor: Marc9, He said, he wanted to be security spokesperson as I remember..
(12:01:51) Marc9: zixtor, yes, and backup admin on the server
(12:02:04) nijel: about Dieter: I think if he will keep the tasks (security coordinator and backup admin), I find the

involvement good enough.
(12:02:20) madhuracj: I think the same
(12:02:43) zixtor: I also support voluntary declaration
(12:03:35) Marc9: I propose the end of meeting