2013 12_Meeting_IRC_Log

ruleant: meeting in 1 minute, see preparation : https://wiki.phpmyadmin.net/pma/2013-12_Meeting nijel: hi all, everybody ready? :-) Marc9: I am ruleant: hi all, I'm ready zixtor: Hello all. Marc9: Hi nijel: okay, sounds good, so let's start nijel: first point: Direct access to db/table Marc9: Yes, how can this work without a token parameter? nijel: db/table are whitelisted and it used to redirect to default page for table/database when these were set Marc9: without a token? ruleant: I assume (didn't test it) that you are redirected to the login page when you don't have token? ruleant: mount nijel: yes, these two variables are IMHO still whitelisted Marc9: So, probably due to the new 4.0 URLs, it no longer works. Do we still feel that it's an important feature? ibennetch: I do think it's worth having chanaka777: Yes, me too nijel: simply if db/table was set, the proper content was loaded: github.com/phpmyadmin/phpmyadmin/blob/QA_3_5/index.php#L49 nijel: I also think it's useful mynetx: Question being, how to fix it? nijel: I think setting target using similar logic would work - https://github.com/phpmyadmin/phpmyadmin/blob/master/index.php#L36 nijel: anyway I think we agree to fix this and we can discuss technical stuff on devel list, right? ruleant: agreed Marc9: OK nijel: next point: Handling js error reports Marc9: Yes, did someone volunteer to scan and address these reports? - zixtor se odpojil (Read error: Connection reset by peer) nijel: when I last tried, the connection to sf.net did not work and I gave up ... so we should probably fix this first, then triaging will not be that hard Marc9: nijel is there a bug entry about this connection problem? nijel: I think I've only asked on mailing list, will file one - zixtor se připojil do místnosti mynetx: (How can a report be assigned to an existing SF bug issue?) Marc9: I would expect someone fluent in js, could do the triaging at least once per week. Marc9: Once per month? :) zixtor: I could help with that :) nijel: great, we have a volunteer :-) Marc9: i suggest we modify the team page to indicate that Aul is "JavaScript Q/A coordinator" Marc9: Atul nijel: okay for me zixtor: Also, are all bugs relating to error reporting fixed? I mean is it working ok? from the mentors? zixtor: ok for me Marc9: zixtor, well, we already have 34 entries in the site zixtor: Great :) will check out soon nijel: but most of these are duplicates, so it's not that bad nijel: but let's move on Marc9: zixtor, congratulations on your new title :) nijel: next point: Ideas for GSoC 2014 zixtor: Marc, Thanks Marc9: Ok, what do you think about my entry "Structure tools" ? ruleant: Central list of columns sounds intresting zixtor: Seems useful to me nijel: sounds interesting mynetx: > are all bugs relating to error reporting fixed? mynetx: > (How can a report be assigned to an existing SF bug issue?) ruleant: just wondering : if you change a column definition in the central list, does it affect the databases where that column is used? Marc9: ruleant, ideally it should nijel: mynetx: no and there is IMHO currently no way Marc9: Ok, but the central list is not a big enough project, so what about normalization ? ruleant: I'm not familiar with 3NF, I'm afraid zixtor: I am not acquainted with the third normal form ;) ruleant: would this be similar to the tool that suggest column types based on the data in the table? Marc9: In short, it frees the structure from anomalies zixtor: But anomalies may be desirable sometimes to the user.. so do we enforce it ? Marc9: ruleant, it's more about the structure (like no repetitive columns, etc) Marc9: zixtor, it would be an optional tool to use ruleant: sounds usefull, for those who would like to use it. chanaka777: yeah, that would really helpful for beginners nijel: I think it makes sense to have something like that Marc9: An example of anomaly: an invoice with their items, and the customer's phone number present in each item Marc9: The customer's phone number should be present only once, in the customer table Marc9: See my book "Creating MySQL databases" :) ibennetch: I like the idea. I think the tool can make suggestions and if the user prefers to deviate they don't have to accept them nijel: (so reason for this project is that Marc can increase sales volume of his books :-)) chanaka777: yeah, normalization forms basically helps to avoid data redundancy Marc9: So it seems that this idea (with these two subprojects) are accepted? nijel: yes ruleant: so, the tool would suggest/check to move the tel-number column to the customer/other database? Marc9: nijel, on the contrary, the tool could decrease the book sales .... mynetx: (Marc9: What about "Mastering phpMyAdmin" —any update for 4.x?) Marc9: mynetx: ask this to Packt Publishings (they have refused) - pepsicola1 se připojil do místnosti pepsicola1: hello zixtor: Marc, So can we have exact deliverables if we include it is in the project list ? pertaining to 3NF separate from 1NF 2NF Marc9: ruleant, exactly ibennetch: Also, your other suggestion for input validation would probably go well with some ideas I've been collecting (but haven't yet added to the list); basically there are some aspects of the user interface that could use polishing and those ideas all go well together. Marc9: zixtor, I think a good designer has to reach 3NF anyway pepsicola1: can someon eplease help me with mysql, I Accidently set my max_question to 3 and cant seem to log into mysql server zixtor: Marc, agreed ibennetch: pepsicola1: hello. We're in the middle of the developer meeting here for the next thirty minutes, so the channel will be quite busy until then. Although sorry, I do not know the answer to your question offhand anyway. Marc9: ibennetch, please create a feature request about input validation then, and add it to your collection of ideas Marc9: Other opinions about input validation? nijel: collecting some UI improvements might be good project as well ibennetch: Marc9: sure thing. nijel: I'm for input validation mynetx: Marc9: How to convince them best—using which channel? ibennetch: yes, I'd like to go back to the book issue, Packt doesn't see the value in an update? Marc9: nijel, I have already a bunch of interface improvements collection mynetx: pepsicola1: Take a look here: https://www.mkyong.com/mysql/how-to-modify-the-max_questions-resource-value-in-mysql/ Marc9: ibennetch, I am not at liberty to discuss it Marc9: ibennetch, but on their website, you can suggest a title if you want nijel: Marc9: what I meant is really just UI/client side improvements ibennetch: Okay, if I happen to see the value in continuing to update one of their titles, I may decide to let them know ;) Marc9: nijel, OK - kubanc se odpojil (Quit: Leaving) nijel: any other comments to this topic? ibennetch: nijel: yeah, I agree, I've got a few ideas that I haven't been able to write out in to the ideas list yet, so if you see something you would like improved, feel free to jump ahead of me. Not sure if it will fit nicely in to Marc's interface improvement project or add too much work, but we'll figure that out closer to GSoC I imagine. zixtor: nijel, reaching a consensus on many UI improvements remains difficult though ibennetch: I'm ready to move on :) nijel: okay, let's see what we will collect and then structure it into projects... zixtor: okay Marc9: nijel, ideally these suggestions should be in the rfe list nijel: next topic: Wiki preparation for GSoC 2014 ruleant: I volunteer to update the wiki nijel: great, that was fast :-) ruleant: :p nijel: I guess nobody objects :-) nijel: next topic: Advertisement on wiki Marc9: I have a question about GSoC: Marc9: who will be the org admin? nijel: I can do it Marc9: wow, that was fast :) chanaka777: :P nijel: If somebody news wants to get in to learn things, he's welcome too :-) nijel: s/news/new/ zixtor: Yes, as an observer I would like it.. nijel: okay, perfect ruleant: I'd like to be backup again nijel: okay, I think this setup can work nijel: so back to the topic: Advertisement on wiki Marc9: (We'll have to talk about who will mentor, at the next meeting) ibennetch: I'm fine with filling the remaining ~3 month agreement. Marc9: me too Marc9: Anyway, the new server is due .. .when? nijel: Probably next week Marc9: 20 minutes... nijel: Basically everything is ready, but I'll be for extended weekend in Budapest, so I don't want to mess up with the server before. ruleant: fine by me, but does the agreement of ooshirts conflicts with the conservancy rules Marc9: I don't think so, since we point to their home page nijel: I don't think so (there is just a link to a domain and no evaluation or comparing in the text) ruleant: ok, will we allow sponsors on the wiki afterwards? ibennetch: If there's concern, a quick inquiry with Conservancy will set our minds at ease. I can do so if you wish. Marc9: ruleant, I believe we decided against nijel: ruleant: no ruleant: ok nijel: this is just a temporary to keep the agreement I've made in the past ruleant: just asking because, some (future) sponsors might ask the same question? ;) nijel: okay, so everybody agrees? zixtor: yes Marc9: yes nijel: we have about 10 minutes left nijel: next point: Next releases nijel: I agree with Marc9's suggestions ibennetch: I think the proposal written by Marc is good. Publish 4.1.0 final soon, and announce 6 month security updates on 4.0.10. Perhaps we can document a generic plan on which versions we plan to support for how long, but that can be dealt with on the mailing list. Marc9: I would also remove the download link for 3.5.x (they remain downloadable from sf.net) nijel: ibennetch: Indeed documenting this in generic way is good idea as well ibennetch: I'll take responsiblity for that and will move discussion to the mailing list due to lack of time here nijel: Marc9: okay to remove it after we stop supporting it (we've IMHO promised support till end of the year, am I right) Marc9: nijel, yes that's what I meant * Marc9 is ready to move on nijel: next point: Testing and documenting browser support ruleant: agreed to 4.1 final, security support for 4.0 until 1Jul2014 and removing the 3.5 links Marc9: I have a big question: any volunteer for browser testing? nijel: this should be ideally automated using BrowserStack, though I failed to find time in setting this up... * Marc9 is wondering how an automated testing system can be as extensive as manual testing nijel: of course it depends on having selenium testcases, but IMHO it's better to do the testcases and rely on automation than on doing manual tests for every release Marc9: for example, would it detect the Enter bug in drop-downs for IE 10 ? nijel: it depends on the testcases ... but in manual testing it's also really easy to miss something like this - zixtor se odpojil (Ping timeout: 265 seconds) Marc9: In the past, we have relied on users for this ruleant: I agree with nijel, automated tests will not catch everything, but at elast they test some things that might be overlooked by a manual tester chanaka777: nijel, it's not free right ? ruleant: Marc9 : a combination of both is ideal ;) Marc9: ruleant, yes, but we still need manpower to set up the tests :/ ruleant: Marc9 : true nijel: indeed both needs somebody to do/implement it :-) - zixtor se připojil do místnosti nijel: intergrating BrowserStack into ci.phpmyadmin.net is still on my todo list, but I have no clue when I can get to it :-( ibennetch: Isn't BrowserStack the one that we got free access to thanks to mynetx? nijel: yes, we have free access for automated tests Marc9: ibennetch yes chanaka777: great :) * Marc9 is free to continue the meeting nijel: I'll have to leave soon... ibennetch: So we just need someone to configure BrowserStack for the tests we wish to run. This seems like something I can look at and at least report back to the list on further details if I have trouble. ibennetch: (or questions) Marc9: let's take one minute to discuss "new messages in a bugfix version" plesae Marc9: please Marc9: ibennetch, I guess you'll need access to the server then nijel: ibennetch: once I migrate the ci server, you will have access there ibennetch: Okay, let's wait for the new server and get going there, then. nijel: Okay, so last topic for today - new messages in a bugfix version ruleant: I think it is a good idea to update the messages, should the translation just point to the QA_4_* branch? Marc9: I also think we can add messages for bugfix, in the current 4.1 branch on Weblate nijel: I think we can add them if necessary, though we have to expect that not all translators will catch up and it might be untranslated for few releases. Marc9: nijel, yes but this is true also before each release... Marc9: I meant, before a .0 release nijel: yes, but while making beta's and rc's we get more attention from translators ruleant: OK, I misread, I would be careful adding new messages (only if they are necesarry or if they improve the message, fe in case of a typo) Marc9: ruleant, the alternative is postpone a bugfix, or have two versions of a bugfix Marc9: we have new messages for a bugfix in the current pull request by Gemorroj ibennetch: I'm cautious about adding messages for bugfixes, but neither alternative is any better, so I accept that it's the best solution available. nijel: I agree with ibennetch here Marc9: These are messages for the replication UI, so it's not too bad if someone sees them in English ibennetch: Also, i think the number of times we'll add new messages for a bugfix are minimal; usually a bug fix is for an existing feature which would already have messages. So we can go ahead with this. Marc9: I understand that we can add messages; anyway it should not happen frequently nijel: so it seems that we quite agree on this nijel: I'll have to go now, so in case you want to continue discussion, please append it to log and minutes :-) ruleant: I agree too ibennetch: Thanks, see you next time. nijel: bye Marc9: we can continue a few minutes, ok? chanaka777: I'm ok zixtor: okay Marc9: Issue: Deprecating the mysql extension ibennetch: Sure, I'm still here as well ruleant: sure Marc9: How about deprecating this extension? I'm tired of bug reports from users with this old extension? ibennetch: PHP has depreciated it some time ago I think; we should as well. zixtor: I agree to depreciate Marc9: OK, I add the stronger message for 4.2 ruleant: i agree on the stronger message Marc9: Moving on... Marc9: In Real Life meeting ruleant: But when will we drop mysql extension support? Marc9: ruleant, if 4.2 is only about a stronger message, so 4.3 would remove it ibennetch: Can one of you update the wiki minutes with these decisions? I must leave in about ten minutes and won't have time until this evening (I'd be happy to do it then) ruleant: ok Marc9: would remove support ***Marc9 will update the wiki ibennetch: yeah, 4.3 seems good to me zixtor: Agreed for drop in 4.3 ibennetch: What's in Australia in 2015? Marc9: ruleant, did you mean Australia with "down under" ruleant: Marc9 : yes ruleant: I believe you mentioned this during our meeting in Switzerland Marc9: It would be a Linux conference then Marc9: linux.conf.au but it's in Jan 2014 ruleant: yes, but it's a yearly event, so there will probably be one in 2015 Marc9: I don't think we'll have the budget for a team meeting in Australia ruleant: fair enough Marc9: Anyway we still haven't received an update from Conservancy about our funds zixtor: I am missing Australia plan ? it's written LinuxTag on agenda ? ruleant: we discussed this briefly at Debconf, so I just wanted to bring it up zixtor: Ok Marc9: and there is the very difficult issue of discussing about who earns an invitation ruleant: yes, I agree zixtor: Agreed Marc9: so I suggest that everyone have a look at linux.conf.au to see first if it would be interesting to go there (for the conference itself) ibennetch: I must go in about four minutes Marc9: and we could skip the year 2014 if we make a more costly trip Marc9: ok so let's end the meeting ruleant: ok zixtor: ok Marc9: bye all chanaka777: have a nice days guys! ibennetch: I don't see a huge benefit of attending the .au conference over a .us or Europe one. ruleant: btw : I can't make it to the next meeting, I'm on holiday ibennetch: Although it would be nice to meet with users from Australia and represent the product there. ibennetch: ruleant: enjoy! Marc9: ruleant, good holiday zixtor: Bye all!