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Community Council Meetings
Sandro Mathys edited this page Dec 16, 2015
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18 revisions
Heads-up: This meeting series has been cancelled.
The information below is for archive purposes only. See Meetings for currently scheduled meetings.
The community council consists of everyone interested in fostering the MidoNet community and taking part in the decision making, until a more formal governance body is established eventually. People wishing to participate are well advised to subscribe to the general mailing list and join the #meetings channel on Slack.
The #general channel is a good place to get some quick feedback before putting something for discussion on the general mailing list, where more people will see it, particularly due to the community being globally distributed. While it's possible to reach a consensus and therefore make a decision on the general mailing list, experience shows it can be a slow process and it often ends with no decision at all.
Therefore, the council holds weekly meetings on Slack as discussions in real-time happen faster and decisions can be made with a quick voting. Everyone participating gets to weight in and vote. However, due to the community being globally distributed, meeting times alternate. As such, it's important people who can't attend a given meeting weight in beforehand on the mailing list. It's also possible to postpone a topic to another meeting both beforehand or during a meeting, if more opinions seem desirable or key people are missing.
The community council currently meets every Tuesday in #meetings on Slack, alternating between 09:00 UTC (11:00 CEST, 18:00 JST) and 16:00 UTC (9 AM PDT, 12 PM EDT, 18:00 CEST). Meetings and changes in the schedule are announced on the general mailing list.
The meetings are also scheduled in the meetings calendar.
- 2015-09-01 / #14 (cancelled)
- 2015-08-25 / #13 (cancelled)
- 2015-08-18: (skipped)
- 2015-08-11: (skipped)
- 2015-08-04 / #12 (cancelled)
- 2015-07-28 / #11
- 2015-07-21 / #10 (cancelled)
- 2015-07-14 / #9
- 2015-07-07 / #8
- 2015-06-30 / #7 (cancelled)
- 2015-06-23 / #6 (cancelled)
- 2015-06-16 / #5
- 2015-06-09 / #4 (cancelled)
- 2015-06-02 / #3
- 2015-05-26 / #2
- 2015-05-12 / #1
- When: Tuesday, 12 May 2015 at 09:00 UTC (11:00 CEST, 18:00 JST), duration: 1h
- Where: #meetings on MidoNet Slack
- Who: Everyone interested in fostering the MidoNet community
- For more details, see Community Council Meetings
Meeting Chair: Sandro Mathys
- Roll Call: who's here?
- Proposal for informal governance, see Community Council Meetings (Owner: Sandro Mathys)
- Proposal for meeting guidelines, see Meeting Guidelines (Owner: Sandro Mathys)
- Proposal for provisional, minimal Code of Conduct (Owner: Sandro Mathys)
- ...and suggestion to form a team to write a full-fledged CoC (Owner: Sandro Mathys)
- How to track work items / initiatives? How about a new project in Jira? (Owner: Sandro Mathys)
- ...and meeting agenda items, too? (Owner: Sandro Mathys)
- Planet MidoNet (Owner: Sandro Mathys)
- MoinMoin vs MediaWiki (Owner: Sandro Mathys)
- Ask using StackOverflow vs dedicated Askbot (Owner: adjohn)
- Add more agenda items here (or where you see fit)
- Upstream release status monitoring in council meetings (Owner: toni)
- End: Open Floor
- The proposal for the CommunityCouncil was accepted.
- The proposal for the MeetingGuidelines was accepted. But it was then agreed that it should be complemented to allow the meeting chair to postpone ongoing discussions or move them to the mailing list, if the chair thinks an agreement can't be reached at this time or not within a reasonable time frame.
- The preliminary proposal for the CodeOfConduct was modified during the meeting after concerns with the wording have been voiced, and then accepted.
- Instead of writing a full-fledged CodeOfConduct ourselves, it was acknowledged that other open source projects did a great job in writing theirs and it was decided we should copy one of theirs instead of re-inventing the wheel. Discussion on which one to adopt is to be commenced on the mailing list.
- Proposal to create a Planet to aggregate blogs relevant to MidoNet was accepted.
- Questions on the future purpose of MidoNet Blog were brought up, but discussion was postponed.
- During the open floor, concerns regarding the Quickstart section on the project's homepage were raised but discussion was moved to the mailing list.
- All other agenda items were postponed to the next meeting.
- Sandro Mathys to complement the MeetingGuidelines as outlined above and bring it up for voting again.
- Sandro Mathys to start discussion on which CodeOfConduct to adopt on the mailing list.
- Sandro Mathys to draft a guidelines for future MidoNet Blog purpose / usage.
- Sandro Mathys to set up Planet MidoNet.
- Jaume Devesa to start discussion on the Quickstart section on the mailing list.### Outcome
- The proposal for the MeetingGuidelines with the additions discussed in the previous meeting was accepted.
- The Quickstart section on the homepage to feature a "puppet all-in-one"-based guide instead of the deprecated MidoStack.
- Instead of including upstream release status monitoring in the community council meetings, regular development meetings will be scheduled where this can take place.
- Instead of 5 priority levels for bugs in Jira, only 3 levels will be used in the future. These are 1) critical, 2) major and 3) minor. "Critical" bugs require immediate attention (NOW), "major" bugs require urgent attention (ASAP), "minor" bugs require best effort attention. Current "blocker" bugs will be changed to "critical", "trivial" to "minor".
- Community work items / initiatives to keep being tracked through the mailing list and the wiki instead of a heavier process such as Jira.
Toni Segura [18:00]
it is time
Sandro Mathys [18:00]
Alright, it's time for our first community council meeting then :simple_smile: Let's start with a roll call - who's here?
Sandro Mathys [18:00]
not so impatient @toni :stuck_out_tongue:
Toni Segura [18:00]
https://encrypted-tbn3.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcRX3dP1cFMGEu_c-4aiuQ_d-shooc36N3MrRPLWJTxKpGtHes7E (6KB)
guillermo [18:01]
i'm here
Ivan Kelly [18:02]
i'm here
Toni Segura [18:02]
I summon @jf
JF [18:02]
hello
Sandro Mathys [18:02]
ping *all* the people :wink:
Toni Segura [18:03]
@channel the meeting starts now
Toni Segura [18:03]
@red: do we have a meetboot?
Sandro Mathys [18:03]
okay, that wasn't meant that literally...there's people who might have joined the channel but are not interested in this kind of meeting :wink:
Sandro Mathys [18:04]
no, I don't think so :disappointed:
Toni Segura [18:04]
well, they can see the notification and ignore it :wink:
Toni Segura [18:04]
I'd like an addition to the agenda, although I apologize for it's lateness
Cynthia Thomas [18:04]
I am here <cynthia>
Sandro Mathys [18:04]
but copy-pasting doesn't work too bad to get a log
Toni Segura [18:05]
upstream release monitoring in the meetings
Sandro Mathys [18:05]
Alright, looks like we're 6 people today, welcome all :simple_smile:
Sandro Mathys [18:06]
@toni Just add it to the agenda now then :wink:
Sandro Mathys [18:06]
Speaking of agenda, it's here: http://wiki.midonet.org/CommunityCouncil/Meetings/2015-05-12
Sandro Mathys [18:07]
Anyone think somethings needs to be discussed with priority? Otherwise I'll probably just go from top to bottom and see how far we come within one hour.
Toni Segura [18:07]
added
Duarte Nunes [18:08]
was here
JF [18:08]
go ahead with the existing list :simple_smile:
Sandro Mathys [18:08]
Alright, first up is http://wiki.midonet.org/CommunityCouncil
Sandro Mathys [18:09]
Hopefully, everyone has read everything linked on the agenda :wink:
Sandro Mathys [18:10]
This is my proposal for this community council. It's rather informal by design, to include as many people as possible. Obviously, that won't scale very far and eventually, we'll need a more formal governance structure and bodies. But for know, I think we can need any input, opinion and feedback we can get.
Sandro Mathys [18:11]
Anyone any opinions regarding this proposal?
Toni Segura [18:11]
+1 for the proposed format (edited)
JF [18:11]
I agree, let’s not put too much complexity, at least initially
Sandro Mathys [18:12]
yes, I think we should always strive for as little bureaucracy as possible but add as much as necessary for efficiency :simple_smile:
guillermo [18:12]
+1
Sandro Mathys [18:13]
Alright, you guys are fast - yes, let's have a quick vote. +1 if you agree, -1 if you disagree :simple_smile:
Sandro Mathys [18:14]
obviously, I'm +1 as well :wink:
Sandro Mathys [18:14]
Alright, I think we have 4 people in agreement and no other votes so that's settled :simple_smile:
Cynthia Thomas [18:15]
+1 :simple_smile:
Sandro Mathys [18:15]
five! :simple_smile:
Sandro Mathys [18:15]
Alright, next are the http://wiki.midonet.org/MeetingGuidelines
Sandro Mathys [18:15]
Sorry, only just wrote them a bit earlier today.
Sandro Mathys [18:16]
they're an initial draft, and kept simple: keep on topic, follow the agenda, vote / comment using +1/-1 where appropriate
Toni Segura [18:16]
+1 for the proposed structure
Sandro Mathys [18:16]
is anything missing or should be changed? :simple_smile:
Ivan Kelly [18:16]
+1
guillermo [18:16]
+1
Cynthia Thomas [18:16]
+1 @red
Sandro Mathys [18:17]
we have a fast learner there :simple_smile:
Toni Segura [18:17]
I'd add that in case of disagreements we should have some time limit on the point where the discussion will be taken offline
Toni Segura [18:17]
(mailing list, that is)
Duarte Nunes [18:18]
that sounds like bureaucracy
Sandro Mathys [18:19]
hm, I think a time limit is too strict.
Toni Segura [18:19]
well we can better leave it to the judgement of the chair
Sandro Mathys [18:19]
but I see that a passage could be addad that the chair could postpone or move discussions
Toni Segura [18:19]
+1
Sandro Mathys [18:20]
Everyone, that okay?
Cynthia Thomas [18:20]
+1
JF [18:20]
+1
Sandro Mathys [18:21]
I'll add that to the guidelines then, thanks for the input :simple_smile:
Sandro Mathys [18:22]
and I'll bring it up once more at the next meeting, to be sure people agree - but let's go with it for this meeting anyway :simple_smile:
Sandro Mathys [18:22]
Next topic is the http://wiki.midonet.org/CodeOfConduct - it's currently a very simple draft.
Sandro Mathys [18:23]
This could be seen as bureaucracy but the problem is that once you need a code of conduct, it's too late to write it.
Toni Segura [18:24]
+1 to model it after related communities like the links you posted in the lower part of the page
Sandro Mathys [18:24]
So the current draft basically requests some common sense, to have a basis to put someone in their place if necessary.
Sandro Mathys [18:25]
However, we should come up with a full-fledged CoC rather sooner than later, I think.
Sandro Mathys [18:26]
So, let's first vote on the current preliminary version - should this become effective until we have a more full-fledged version?
Toni Segura [18:28]
+1
Cynthia Thomas [18:28]
+1
Ernest Artiaga [18:28]
+1
Sandro Mathys [18:28]
looks like we lost some people :simple_smile:
Toni Segura [18:28]
and gained other
guillermo [18:28]
+1
JF [18:28]
I’m not a fan of the “don’t be an idiot” statement :simple_smile:
JF [18:29]
I prefer the positive statement in KDE CoC:
Toni Segura [18:29]
yes, I agree with JF on that one
JF [18:29]
Be considerate
Be respectful
Be collaborative
Be pragmatic
Toni Segura [18:29]
I'd put, don't be rude
JF [18:29]
+1
Cynthia Thomas [18:29]
that does sound better
Jaume Devesa [18:29]
Yes, an idiot can not recognise himself
Sandro Mathys [18:30]
Alright, how about taking the "Do" statement plus the KDE ones and leave the "Don't" statement away?
JF [18:30]
+1
Cynthia Thomas [18:30]
+1
Toni Segura [18:30]
which "don't"
Toni Segura [18:30]
?
JF [18:31]
no more "don’t"
Toni Segura [18:31]
ah leave it *away*
Sandro Mathys [18:31]
@toni the "don't be an idiot" - remove that
Toni Segura [18:31]
I read *anyway*
Toni Segura [18:31]
xD
Toni Segura [18:31]
+1
Sandro Mathys [18:32]
What about the common sense section, should we leave that or is it just repeating the above (after this change)?
Sandro Mathys [18:32]
That section existed in the wiki somewhere else, so I included it
Toni Segura [18:33]
for me, the *dos* are enough
Sandro Mathys [18:33]
+1
Cynthia Thomas [18:34]
+1, @toni
Duarte Nunes [18:34]
disallowing recruiting seems pertinent, not sure if i’d count that as common sense
Duarte Nunes [18:34]
well, not sure i’d count anything as common sense
Sandro Mathys [18:35]
We can also change the title, if you want to keep the section :simple_smile:
Sandro Mathys [18:36]
Any more suggestions or votes?
Sandro Mathys [18:37]
(I changed the upper part already, if you want to double-check we understood each other)
JF [18:37]
I don’t think the “common sense” part is redundant but I’m good either way if you wish to remove it
Sandro Mathys [18:38]
3x +1 and 1x 0 then...so I guess we remove the "Common Sense" section now
Sandro Mathys [18:40]
So that's our CoC for now, then. Any volunteers in writing a full-fledged version? Or should we just copy one of the linked ones?
Toni Segura [18:40]
I'd copy
Toni Segura [18:40]
blatantly copy
Cynthia Thomas [18:41]
you could argue pragmatic is synonymous with commonsensical...
Duarte Nunes [18:41]
i’m not sure what that would say about our conduct
Toni Segura [18:41]
that we learn from working communities :wink:
Cynthia Thomas [18:41]
it's concise now. good start, in my opinion
Sandro Mathys [18:42]
I think all of the linked CoCs are licensed freely, so copying should be fair enough
Sandro Mathys [18:44]
So do we copy one? If so, I think I'd postpone this to the next meeting or put it on the mailing list so we can all ready the various examples carefully :simple_smile:
Toni Segura [18:44]
+1 to have the vote go through the ml
Toni Segura [18:44]
for this case
Cynthia Thomas [18:45]
+1 for postponing to email discussion. The other projects have more depth for this page. Does the Wiki page show versioning if users directly modify it? (edited)
JF [18:46]
yes it does
Sandro Mathys [18:47]
somewhere. Can't fine a page-specific history, just http://wiki.midonet.org/RecentChanges
JF [18:47]
http://wiki.midonet.org/CodeOfConduct?action=info
Sandro Mathys [18:48]
right, just saw it as well :simple_smile:
JF [18:48]
it’s in “info” , don’t ask me why :smile:
Cynthia Thomas [18:48]
cool
Sandro Mathys [18:48]
okay, we'll punt it to the mailing list then :simple_smile:
Sandro Mathys [18:49]
I'll jump one agenda point as it's less of a priority, so next is: Planet MidoNet
Sandro Mathys [18:49]
the questions is quite simple: do we want one?
Toni Segura [18:50]
I think it would be cool
Toni Segura [18:50]
how many bloggers do we have? (edited)
Sandro Mathys [18:50]
in case you don't know, planets aggregate blogs and basically create a new overlord blog including a RSS feed
Cynthia Thomas [18:50]
What is it exactly? :simple_smile:
Toni Segura [18:50]
it's a blog aggregator
Cynthia Thomas [18:50]
ok
Toni Segura [18:50]
for the people in the community
Sandro Mathys [18:50]
for example: http://planet.openstack.org/
Toni Segura [18:50]
so you can keep up with what the people are doing
Toni Segura [18:50]
doesn't need to be everything about midonet
Sandro Mathys [18:50]
so everyone blogging about MidoNet can have their feed added and all the posts are then put onto one page
Ivan Kelly [18:51]
do many people use rss since google killed reader?
Sandro Mathys [18:51]
some planets are more and some less strict about off-topic posts :simple_smile:
Sandro Mathys [18:51]
to be honest, I think killing google reader was great publicity for RSS and it's at an all-time high
Duarte Nunes [18:52]
i do, with feedly
Sandro Mathys [18:52]
me too, feedly :heart:
Toni Segura [18:52]
I just visit planet.fedora.com very often
Sandro Mathys [18:52]
planet.fedoraproject.org, you mean :stuck_out_tongue:
Toni Segura [18:52]
exactly
Toni Segura [18:52]
I only write planet.fe and it autocompletes :stuck_out_tongue:
Duarte Nunes [18:53]
some people have been blogging via the main midokura blog
Duarte Nunes [18:53]
but @ivankelly blogged via his own
JF [18:53]
I’m a big RSS user too
Ivan Kelly [18:53]
@red suggested that
Duarte Nunes [18:53]
so i guess we can already benefit from aggregation
Cynthia Thomas [18:53]
which RSS reader do you use, @jf?
Sandro Mathys [18:54]
I'm subscribed to both Fedora and OpenStack planets and I think it's a great way to see what's going on in the community. People often share their experiences, and it can be very inspirational as well
JF [18:54]
@techcet: reeder+feedbin (edited)
Sandro Mathys [18:55]
and it's much easier to have blogs put into a planet than to distribute access to a central blog (blog.midonet.org), which I would prefer to only use for major announcements (releases, new features, ...)
Sandro Mathys [18:55]
with Planet OpenStack, people add their blog by cloning a git repo, adding theirs and submitting it for review - I think that's great
Cynthia Thomas [18:55]
will we aggregate Fedora's and OpenStack's planets into Planet MidoNet?
Sandro Mathys [18:55]
no
Sandro Mathys [18:56]
That would add like 99.999% off-topic :wink:
Sandro Mathys [18:56]
we ask people to add their own blog, and if possible only a dedicated category
Cynthia Thomas [18:57]
true
Sandro Mathys [18:57]
and of course, we'd motivate people to get a blog of their own to share their thoughts, experiences, achievements, ... with the community. Can just get a free hosted one from wordpress, blogger, etc.
Sandro Mathys [18:58]
Alright, who's in favor, who's against putting up a planet of our own? :simple_smile:
Toni Segura [18:58]
+1
JF [18:58]
+1
Cynthia Thomas [18:58]
trick question?
Cynthia Thomas [18:59]
+1 to the former
Jaume Devesa [18:59]
+1
Duarte Nunes [18:59]
what happens to the main blog?
Sandro Mathys [18:59]
haha, smartass :stuck_out_tongue:
Sandro Mathys [19:00]
@duarte: That's a different topic, and we'll have to postpone that. For now, it stays as-is, at least until we actually have our planet :simple_smile:
Toni Segura [19:00]
that would be the official blog
Toni Segura [19:00]
for more official posts
Sandro Mathys [19:01]
Yes, that's what I'd suggest as well, but we need written guidelines for that...I'll come up with a draft for another meeting.
Sandro Mathys [19:01]
We've already reached our 1h limit, so we'll postpone the rest of the agenda, unless someone has something urgent...
Cynthia Thomas [19:02]
nothing urgent here. thanks @red!
Sandro Mathys [19:02]
that okay with you @toni since you added a topic :simple_smile:
Toni Segura [19:02]
ok
Sandro Mathys [19:03]
Anyone want to discuss something that's not on the agenda? feel free to bring it up now :simple_smile:
Jaume Devesa [19:03]
I do
Sandro Mathys [19:03]
sure, what's up?
Jaume Devesa [19:04]
The `getting started` section in the web is quite out of date
Jaume Devesa [19:04]
We have several better options to deploy and try-yourself MidoNet right now:
Jaume Devesa [19:04]
* devstack plugin
Toni Segura [19:04]
very good point
Jaume Devesa [19:04]
* puppet
Jaume Devesa [19:04]
we can even build a vagrant box, or an iso
Toni Segura [19:05]
@devvesa: what about having also an image for each release on a cloud provider like ec2 or some other that supports kvm?
Jaume Devesa [19:05]
I think it is important to define which will be the 'demo' environment for the community
Jaume Devesa [19:05]
well, have an ec2 instance for an openstack demo seems like we don't trust in a OS provider :simple_smile:
Sandro Mathys [19:07]
You mean this page? http://wiki.midonet.org/GettingStartedMidonet
Jaume Devesa [19:07]
no
Jaume Devesa [19:07]
http://midonet.org/#quickstart
Sandro Mathys [19:07]
okay
Toni Segura [19:08]
mmm
Toni Segura [19:08]
@devvesa: we could have a qcow2 image like ubuntu cloud and fedora cloud have
Jaume Devesa [19:08]
midostack is a legacy nightmare monster that we have red rid of recently
Toni Segura [19:08]
available for download from midonet.org
Sandro Mathys [19:09]
Yes, I'm not very happy with that section, because it can't be changed easily and only with special access. I think we need to remove it and maybe some other parts and link to the wiki instead.
Jaume Devesa [19:10]
I like the idea. It will be more flexible if it is in the wiki
Toni Segura [19:10]
I think it's more about having permissions for those who maintain it
Toni Segura [19:10]
having it in the wiki is good
Sandro Mathys [19:10]
But that's nothing we can do right now, can we discuss that on the mailing list?
Toni Segura [19:10]
but having it also on the main page is not detrimental
Jaume Devesa [19:10]
sure. As long as it gets discussed :simple_smile:
Toni Segura [19:10]
sure
Sandro Mathys [19:11]
@devvesa: Can you write a post, or should I? You know our new/"supported" methods much better than I do, though
Jaume Devesa [19:11]
Yes!
Sandro Mathys [19:11]
great, thanks
Jaume Devesa [19:12]
I have a question too. Does Slack any method to collect logs of the meetings and publish it somewhere?
Jaume Devesa [19:13]
http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/ is quite useful to read missing meetings
Sandro Mathys [19:13]
I think it only just allows to download the complete archive of everything in every channel :disappointed:
Jaume Devesa [19:14]
bad news :confused:
Toni Segura [19:15]
maybe @red can make a bot :wink:
Toni Segura [19:15]
or find one (edited)
Cynthia Thomas [19:16]
@red may I be excused? I need to adjourn
Sandro Mathys [19:16]
yea, we'll see if we find some solution...I'm unhappy with this as well.
Sandro Mathys [19:17]
Alright, we'll adjourn this meeting anyway, thanks everyone for coming! The next one is on May 26 at 16:00 UTC
Cynthia Thomas [19:17]
thanks @red!
Jaume Devesa [19:17]
bye all, thanks for leading the meeting, @red!
Sandro Mathys [19:17]
See some of you at OpenStack Summit, too I hope...we're trying to set up an informal gathering there, as well :simple_smile:
Sandro Mathys [19:17]
I'll try to keep it within one hour better next time, sorry
Cynthia Thomas [19:17]
Sounds great!
Toni Segura [19:18]
very well
Sandro Mathys [19:18]
meeting adjourned, will send out the log and a summary :simple_smile:
Toni Segura [19:18]
until next time
- When: Tuesday, 26 May 2015 at 16:00 UTC (9 AM PDT, 12 PM EDT, 18:00 CEST), duration: 60 minutes
- Where: #meetings on MidoNet Slack
- Who: Everyone interested in fostering the MidoNet community
- For more details, see Community Council Meetings
Meeting Chair: Sandro Mathys
- Roll Call: who's here?
- Status of Action Items from last meeting.
- How to track work items / initiatives? How about a new project in Jira? (Owner: Sandro Mathys)
- ...and meeting agenda items, too? (Owner: Sandro Mathys)
- Ask using StackOverflow vs dedicated Askbot (Owner: adjohn)
- Upstream release status monitoring in council meetings (Owner: toni)
- Simplify priority levels from 5 to 3 (Owner: jf)
- Release schedule (Owner: jf)
- MoinMoin vs MediaWiki vs Middleman (Owner: Sandro Mathys)
- Add more agenda items here (or where you see fit)
- End: Open Floor
- Sandro Mathys to continue discussion on which CodeOfConduct to adopt on the mailing list.
- Sandro Mathys to draft guidelines for future MidoNet Blog purpose / usage.
- Sandro Mathys to continue to set up Planet MidoNet.
- Jaume Devesa to replace the Quickstart section with a "puppet all-in-one"-based guide.
- Sandro Mathys to schedule regular developer meetings, either weekly or bi-weekly.
- JF to send a heads-up note to the mailing list regarding changing bug priority levels.
- JF to remind developers about tagging Jira issues as "low-hanging fruit" on the mailing list.
- Jaume Devesa remarked, that only a few can currently contribute to the homepage. Toni Segura and Sandro Mathys agreed it should be open for everyone to send pull requests. Adam Johnson fixed this soon after the meeting.
- Toni Segura was suggesting tracking of "low-hanging fruits" (in the wiki) but JF pointed out that there's already a label in Jira for this, which is linked from the HowToContribute wiki page.
Toni Segura [01:00]
is here
Sandro Mathys [01:00]
Alright @channel, it's time for our 2nd community council meeting. Let's start with the roll call:
who's here? :simple_smile:
Sandro Mathys [01:01]
Damn you @toni, don't always be so impatient :stuck_out_tongue:
Toni Segura [01:01]
:wink:
Jorju [01:01]
is here
Ivan Kelly [01:02]
is here
Galo [01:02]
is here
Sandro Mathys [01:02]
Good to see some new faces, that weren't here last time :simple_smile:
JF [01:03]
hi everyone
Tim Fall [01:03]
is not here
Sandro Mathys [01:03]
Alright, hello everyone - late joiners care still welcome to stay hi :simple_smile: Let's start with
the agenda: http://wiki.midonet.org/CommunityCouncil/Meetings/2015-05-26
Sandro Mathys [01:04]
First, let's quickly follow up on the action items from last week:
http://wiki.midonet.org/CommunityCouncil/Meetings/2015-05-12/Meetings#Action_Items
Sandro Mathys [01:05]
First point is a small requested addition to the meeting guidelines, and I took the chance to also
improve it a tiny bit: http://wiki.midonet.org/MeetingGuidelines?action=diff&rev1=1&rev2=2
Sandro Mathys [01:06]
The guidelines were basically accepted already, so this is only about the change. Any comments?
Otherwise, let's hear your votes :simple_smile:
Sandro Mathys [01:07]
Everyone is invited to speak up or cast a vote, by the way :simple_smile:
Toni Segura [01:07]
+1
Toni Segura [01:07]
likes the edits
Toni Segura [01:09]
@channel: let's see the votes. Don't keep the cards so close to the chests
Jorju [01:09]
+1
Sandro Mathys [01:10]
Well, abstaining is fair enough and I figure people have had time to bring up objections, so this
should be good :simple_smile:
Jaume Devesa [01:10]
is here arriving late
Sandro Mathys [01:11]
The other actions items - I've started the CodeOfConduct discussion, but would like to see some more
opinions before we bring it back to the meeting.
Sandro Mathys [01:11]
And I didn't have time to draw up blog guidelines due to OpenStack Summit and such, so I'll re-add
that to today's action items as well.
Sandro Mathys [01:12]
Planet MidoNet has been operational for a while, but needs a proper theme - and be put into a git
repo, and be integrated with gerrit. So still on the todo list as well.
Jaume Devesa [01:12]
Can we see a preview?
Jaume Devesa [01:12]
:simple_smile:
Sandro Mathys [01:13]
Sure, this is one of the included themes: http://planet.midonet.org/
Sandro Mathys [01:13]
And only MidoNet Blog is aggregated right now.
Jaume Devesa [01:13]
I love this GNU-style
Sandro Mathys [01:14]
This is with OpenStack's theme, minus the header and footers - but that one is probably protected,
so we need to do our own :simple_smile: http://ostplanet.midonet.org/
Jaume Devesa [01:14]
Richard Stallman would download our blog with his mail daemon happily
Sandro Mathys [01:15]
well, for that, there's an RSS feed :stuck_out_tongue:
Sandro Mathys [01:15]
Jaume, you've started the quickstart discussion on the mailing list, what's the status there?
Jaume Devesa [01:15]
It seems like most people agrees on puppet all-in-one solution. Although it has not been an official
vote
Jaume Devesa [01:16]
I received also feedback that current documentation: http://wiki.midonet.org/OpenStack%20Puppet
Jaume Devesa [01:16]
is too much vagrant focused. It should be modified
Toni Segura [01:16]
+1 to that
Sandro Mathys [01:16]
+1 as well :simple_smile:
Jaume Devesa [01:17]
Can we officially say that quickstart will be puppet all-in-one?
JF [01:17]
+1
Jaume Devesa [01:17]
+1
Sandro Mathys [01:17]
people should be able to learn how to deploy it for production usage :simple_smile:
Sandro Mathys [01:18]
+1 to puppet all-in-one quickstart
Jorju [01:18]
+1 to puppet -1 to vagrant
Sandro Mathys [01:18]
For those who don't know, we're referring to the Quickstart section on our homepage:
http://www.midonet.org/
Sandro Mathys [01:19]
It's currently featuring MidoStack, which is deprecated and probably not ideal for other reasons
Jaume Devesa [01:19]
not ideal for anything, i would say
Toni Segura [01:20]
some people like tough love
Sandro Mathys [01:20]
So, since everyone seems in agreement, can you keep working on this @devvesa?
Jaume Devesa [01:20]
I'll do
Jaume Devesa [01:20]
I'll sent a mail to mailing list once finished
Sandro Mathys [01:20]
Great, thanks :simple_smile:
Jaume Devesa [01:21]
although I will need @adjohn for the web
Toni Segura [01:21]
devvesa
Toni Segura [01:21]
I have access to web editing
Sandro Mathys [01:21]
I should be able to put the changes online as well :simple_smile:
Toni Segura [01:21]
if @adjohn is okay with it I can help with that
Toni Segura [01:21]
oh, better @red then :stuck_out_tongue:
Sandro Mathys [01:22]
Just put on the mailing list what needs to be changed, and I'm sure one of us will pick it up
:simple_smile:
Toni Segura [01:22]
I thought it could be done with a pull request to the webpage repo
Toni Segura [01:22]
@adjohn: is that one public?
Sandro Mathys [01:22]
if it isn't, we should work on that too :simple_smile:
Sandro Mathys [01:23]
I'll check that later
Toni Segura [01:23]
thanks
Sandro Mathys [01:23]
Alright, next topic. Since @adjohn doesn't seem present, we'll skip his point and jump to @toni's
"Upstream release status monitoring in council meetings"
Sandro Mathys [01:23]
what's the question / proposal here, @toni? :simple_smile:
Toni Segura [01:24]
well, I sent a _summary_ over email last night
JF [01:24]
it’s on the "MidoNet release cycle” thread
Toni Segura [01:24]
basically it is about having release management upstream
Toni Segura [01:24]
keeping the last 15 or 20 minutes of this meeting
Toni Segura [01:24]
for a roll call of team representatives
Toni Segura [01:25]
that will update on the state of the features for the upcoming release
Toni Segura [01:25]
and were "release go" "release no go" will be pronounced
Toni Segura [01:25]
if delaying is necessary
Toni Segura [01:25]
please, if you haven't yet
Toni Segura [01:25]
read the email
Toni Segura [01:25]
and ask any questions you have
Toni Segura [01:26]
(also attempts to define the boundaries of when features can be proposed in the cycle and feature
freeze)
Sandro Mathys [01:26]
First of all, please avoid hijacking mail threads - open a new one for a new topic :simple_smile:
JF [01:27]
there are several items on the proposal, I’m definitely +1 on sharing the updates if others feel
it’s useful as well
Sandro Mathys [01:27]
to be honest, I think this should go into a developer's meeting - it's not really connected to the
community efforts we're dealing with here
Toni Segura [01:27]
@red: I'll do that in the future (edited)
Toni Segura [01:28]
well, so then I propose to hold it 20min before the current meeting
JF [01:28]
20mn before is challenging time for me :simple_smile:
Sandro Mathys [01:29]
Developers have not yet seen a need for meetings yet, I suggested it more than once - but figure I
should just go forward and schedule it :stuck_out_tongue:
Toni Segura [01:29]
@red: it is necessary if we are to have visibility of the things we are working on
Sandro Mathys [01:29]
Now at least I have a good reason to have a weekly developers meeting, I guess :wink:
Toni Segura [01:29]
how they are evolving
Galo [01:29]
give us a practical need and we'll flock to it
Galo [01:29]
I think weekly by default is too heavy
Galo [01:29]
we should only do meetings when necessary
Toni Segura [01:30]
@galo: participation can be as simple as
Sandro Mathys [01:30]
Well, they can be cancelled if the agenda is empty :simple_smile:
JF [01:30]
bi-weekly ?
Toni Segura [01:30]
`there's 10 proposed features in the etherpad and they are still undergoing review`
Galo [01:30]
if it has a pre-circulated agenda it seems ok to me
JF [01:31]
@toni: what etherpad?
Toni Segura [01:31]
or `feature A spec has been merged, others still waiting`
Toni Segura [01:31]
@jf: that was just some example :wink:
JF [01:31]
:simple_smile:
Toni Segura [01:31]
I guess we'd keep a wiki like for the council meeting points
Galo [01:32]
that seems very OSt-focused, so it actually sounds more of an OSt holon status/plannig meeting
Toni Segura [01:32]
that points to the accepted specs
Toni Segura [01:32]
and the proposed ones
Galo [01:32]
rather than developer wide
Toni Segura [01:32]
actually no
Toni Segura [01:32]
this is for the whole, as I see it
Sandro Mathys [01:32]
Alright, I'll kick off scheduling of a developers meeting then. :simple_smile:
Toni Segura [01:32]
as a member of the community I'd love to see what the other teams are working on
Galo [01:32]
that's why god invented JIRa boards
Galo [01:32]
:simple_smile: (edited)
Sandro Mathys [01:33]
Purpose and such will be defined by the people attending, and the chair, I think - much like here
:simple_smile:
Toni Segura [01:33]
@galo: don't confuse God and the Devil
Toni Segura [01:33]
:wink:
Galo [01:33]
well I mean, team status is visible, no need to duplicate it
Sandro Mathys [01:33]
let's move on here, feel free to take this topic into #developers if you must :stuck_out_tongue:
Galo [01:33]
but anyway yeah
Toni Segura [01:33]
we can continue on the mailing list :wink:
Sandro Mathys [01:34]
@jf, you're up next: "Simplify priority levels from 5 to 3"
JF [01:34]
so, we have 5 level of priorities in the Jira issues now, that’s confusing
JF [01:34]
depending on who you talk to they have different interpretations
JF [01:35]
I’m suggesting to just keep 3 : critical, major, minor
JF [01:35]
This is mainly for managing bugs (edited)
Sandro Mathys [01:35]
they always have different interpretations, even if you only have two :wink:
Toni Segura [01:35]
+1
JF [01:35]
true
Galo [01:35]
the confusion is because we mix severity and priority
JF [01:36]
here’s the proposal for documenting in wiki:
Galo [01:36]
I'm ok with three, but people should understand that they are not meant to designate severity
Sandro Mathys [01:36]
But critical, major and minor make sense, +1
JF [01:36]
Critical : require immediate attention
Major : requires urgent attention (as soon as possible)
Minor : best effort
JF [01:37]
anyone opposed to the change?
Galo [01:37]
fine for me
JF [01:37]
if not , I’ll update the existing issues to match those
Jorju [01:38]
+1
JF [01:38]
the issues of type blocker will move to critical (edited)
Toni Segura [01:38]
I think blocker is special though
Toni Segura [01:38]
as in, it prevents the release
Toni Segura [01:38]
or any critical will?
JF [01:38]
yes
Toni Segura [01:38]
alright then
JF [01:39]
I wouldn’t release something with a critical bug :simple_smile:
Galo [01:39]
depends on the severity
Galo [01:39]
:
Toni Segura [01:39]
I wouldn't say as much
Galo [01:39]
:simple_smile:
Sandro Mathys [01:39]
Do we have actual release criteria / guidelines, though? :simple_smile:
Toni Segura [01:39]
I would release if it's not a new bug of this release
Toni Segura [01:40]
i.e. it's not a regression or a new bug
Toni Segura [01:40]
@red: I'm not aware that we do
JF [01:40]
@red: good discussion , maybe separate, there are talks to form a QA group but nothing acted ...
Sandro Mathys [01:41]
Sounds good
Sandro Mathys [01:41]
Not sure where these talks happen since I watch the mailing lists and slack channels, and haven't
seen any, though :stuck_out_tongue:
Toni Segura [01:41]
@jf: could you start an ml thread about the release guidelines?
JF [01:41]
absolutely!
Toni Segura [01:42]
thanks!
Sandro Mathys [01:43]
Alright, so I think there is an agreement regarding the 5->3 change and everything else will be
handled outside of this meeting :simple_smile:
Toni Segura [01:43]
good
JF [01:43]
great news
JF [01:44]
I will send a notification on the ML as well
Sandro Mathys [01:44]
alright, thanks
Sandro Mathys [01:44]
@jf, you brought the release schedule discussion to the mailing list, do you feel this needs some
more time or do you want to bring this up here now?
JF [01:45]
no, I have a couple of technical question on the release dates but maybe it’s not the right moment
Toni Segura [01:45]
how many topics do we still have to cover?
Sandro Mathys [01:46]
alright, we'll postpone that to next week then :simple_smile:
Sandro Mathys [01:46]
2 left on the agenda @toni
Toni Segura [01:46]
ok
Toni Segura [01:46]
so then @jf: ml or next meeting :wink:
JF [01:46]
@toni and those interested, let’s discuss the release schedule on #developers after this
Toni Segura [01:47]
ok, that can also work
Sandro Mathys [01:47]
however, before we move on - as I'd like to finish on time today - is there any need for open floor
discussions? If so, let's do that now - otherwise, we'll handle one more topic I guess
Toni Segura [01:47]
and we ratify it next week
Toni Segura [01:47]
well, I'd like to propose the creation of a wiki page that links to low hanging fruit
Toni Segura [01:47]
that people that look for low priority non-urgent things to fix, contribute
Galo [01:47]
I'd prefer not to
Toni Segura [01:47]
can use
Galo [01:47]
and instead label in JIRA
JF [01:48]
there is a Jira for it already,
Galo [01:48]
keeping 2 lists is unnecessary overhead
Galo [01:48]
ok so let's link to it
JF [01:48]
and a link from wiki to Jira
JF [01:48]
in the how to contribute page
Toni Segura [01:48]
yes, please
Toni Segura [01:48]
a link
Galo [01:48]
:ok_hand:
JF [01:48]
checking
Sandro Mathys [01:48]
https://midonet.atlassian.net/issues/?jql=labels%3Dlow-hanging-fruit
Sandro Mathys [01:48]
linked from http://wiki.midonet.org/How%20to%20contribute
Sandro Mathys [01:49]
looks good to me :simple_smile:
JF [01:49]
+1
Toni Segura [01:49]
+1
Sandro Mathys [01:49]
or did you have something else / more in mind, @toni?
Sandro Mathys [01:49]
alright, that's good then :simple_smile:
Sandro Mathys [01:50]
Just remind the developers to tag bugs, maybe :simple_smile:
Toni Segura [01:50]
ok
JF [01:51]
ok I’ll add to the mail on jira priorities, or you want to send something separately? (edited)
Sandro Mathys [01:51]
Other open floor discussions?
Toni Segura [01:51]
@jf: separate email
Toni Segura [01:51]
for visibility
JF [01:51]
I send it or @red you take that action?
Sandro Mathys [01:52]
+1, more smaller mails are generally better :simple_smile:
Sandro Mathys [01:52]
@jf I'd appreciate if you or any other developer would. Trying to focus on the parts that don't work
as well as development does, myself :simple_smile:
JF [01:53]
ok!
Sandro Mathys [01:55]
Alright, last agenda item for today: how to track work items, initiatives and meeting action items,
i.e. community rather than development related things. I figure Jira should work good for that,
maybe with a new "community" project in it. Or what do people think? Not familiar with MidoNet's
Jira at all yet :simple_smile:
Toni Segura [01:56]
well, the Jira for midonet is already community
Sandro Mathys [01:56]
Or are non-development things already tracked, too? :simple_smile:
Toni Segura [01:56]
we should just keep in mind to write to the ML about it
Sandro Mathys [01:56]
sure, but I mean "community architecture", "community building", ...
Toni Segura [01:56]
because not everybody is following such things
Sandro Mathys [01:57]
AFAICS, all projects in the MidoNet Jira are about development or documentation so far
:simple_smile:
Galo [01:57]
personally, I'd start with a very light process (e.g., "send an email to the mailing list with your
proposal")
Sandro Mathys [01:59]
That's what we do right now I guess, use mailing list and wikis. But not sure how well this scales,
particularly for things that take a bit longer and involve more people.
JF [01:59]
@red: if you want to experiment with a Jira board, I can help you, then we can propose to everyone
to join if we like the experiment
Galo [01:59]
let's scale when it needs to scale
Sandro Mathys [01:59]
Currently works for me, though :simple_smile:
Galo [01:59]
is my view
Sandro Mathys [02:00]
Alright, everyone okay with leaving it as is for the time being?
Sandro Mathys [02:00]
Appreciate the offer @jf, I'll come back to you once necessary :simple_smile:
JF [02:01]
:simple_smile: ok!
Toni Segura [02:01]
+1
Toni Segura [02:01]
I'd prefer to keep it in emails
Sandro Mathys [02:01]
Good, looks like we're in agreement and keep this as-is :simple_smile:
Toni Segura [02:01]
and maybe a wiki page that talks about upcoming events :wink:
JF [02:02]
works for me too , +1
Sandro Mathys [02:02]
ah yes, that's somewhere on my long todo list :simple_smile: Feel free to create one, though - it's
a wiki! :wink:
Toni Segura [02:02]
@red: didn't we skip the moin moin vs middleman vs mediawiki?
Sandro Mathys [02:03]
Alright, our hour is over and we'll adjourn the meeting here. We're nearly through our agenda, so
hopefully people have more items for next week :wink:
Sandro Mathys [02:03]
@toni Yes, that one didn't make it this time. We'll discuss it next week for sure - or if you have
an insight in all three options, feel free to start an educated discussion thread :simple_smile:
Sandro Mathys [02:05]
I'll follow up with the log, summary and action items on the mailing list. We'll meet again on 2
Sandro Mathys [02:05]
Thanks for joining us everyone :simple_smile:
JF [02:06]
thanks!
Sandro Mathys [02:07]
Oh, and of course, I'll also set up the next meeting and announce it on the mailing list
:simple_smile:
- When: Tuesday, 2 June 2015 at 09:00 UTC (11:00 CEST, 18:00 JST), duration: 60 minutes
- Where: #meetings on MidoNet Slack
- Who: Everyone interested in fostering the MidoNet community
- For more details, see Community Council Meetings
Meeting Chair: Sandro Mathys
- Roll Call: who's here?
- Status of Action Items from last meeting.
- Ask using StackOverflow vs dedicated Askbot (Owner: adjohn)
- Code of Conduct: Which to adopt (KDE vs Twitter) (Owner: Sandro Mathys)
- MoinMoin vs MediaWiki vs Middleman (Owner: Sandro Mathys)
- Add more agenda items here (or where you see fit)
- End: Open Floor
- Sandro Mathys still to draft guidelines for future MidoNet Blog purpose / usage.
- Sandro Mathys still to finish setting up Planet MidoNet.
- Sandro Mathys to copy KDE CoC and Twitter diversity statement to CodeOfConduct
- Sandro Mathys to poll mailing list on whether or not to migrate away from MoinMoin wiki
- If we plan to migrate, Sandro Mathys to compile a comparison of MediaWiki, Middleman and GitHub Wiki - maybe including live demos### Outcome
- Planet MidoNet is finally ready (and it's design is fully responsive). Additional blogs can be added through the usual review process and the exact instructions can be found here.
- The CodeOfConduct was compiled as decided in the last meeting, and approved in its final form.
- MoinMoin / wiki debate ongoing on the mailing list, will keep it running for another week.
- The all-in-one quickstart has been implemented as decided in an earlier meeting, and the all-in-one guide has also been revised (mostly to be usable without Vagrant). There's not much feedback so far, but we also made sure the "Getting Help" section is not directly under the "Quickstart" section, so people should now where to ask/complain if it's not working.
- We're going to set up out own Askbot as a question-answer forum and try to integrate it with Slack (probably in a new channel). Help with this is most welcome!
fernando [17:24]
joined #meetings
Sandro Mathys [17:32]
@channel 3rd community council meeting in ~30 minutes. Agenda: http://wiki.midonet.org/CommunityCouncil/Meetings/2015-06-02 - I'll have to leave a bit ahead of time today, but looks like we're in for a short meeting anyway. :simple_smile:
lucas [17:32]
joined #meetings
Sandro Mathys [17:37]
new faces, excellent :simple_smile:
Sandro Mathys [18:01]
Welcome to our 3rd meeting everyone, let's see who's here - roll call! :simple_smile:
Sandro Mathys [18:01]
Agenda is still here: http://wiki.midonet.org/CommunityCouncil/Meetings/2015-06-02 :wink:
JF [18:01]
good day everyone!
lucas [18:01]
o/
tomoe [18:01]
o/
yantarou [18:02]
o/
Jaume Devesa [18:02]
hi!
micucci [18:02]
joined #meetings
Galo [18:02]
hello
Sandro Mathys [18:02]
so many new faces, great :simple_smile:
micucci [18:02]
here
Ivan Kelly [18:02]
o/
Sandro Mathys [18:02]
keep saying hi if you're joining while we move on already :simple_smile:
Sandro Mathys [18:03]
So first up are action items from last meeting: http://wiki.midonet.org/CommunityCouncil/Meetings/2015-05-26/Meetings#Action_Items
Sandro Mathys [18:03]
starting with CodeOfConduct - we had a discussion on the mailing list and it seems people like the CoC of KDE and Twitter
Sandro Mathys [18:04]
(we decided to copy the CoC of another project earlier, in case you missed it)
Sandro Mathys [18:04]
KDE: https://www.kde.org/code-of-conduct/
KDE Homepage, KDE.org
Sandro Mathys [18:04]
Twitter: https://engineering.twitter.com/opensource/code-of-conduct
Twitter Engineering
Open Source Code of Conduct | Twitter Engineering
This Code of Conduct covers our behavior as members of the @TwitterOSS community and governs how we behave in any open source communication forum. Likewise, we expect it to be honored by everyone else who participates in the @TwitterOSS community. We strive to:
Sandro Mathys [18:06]
so the KDE one is rather long, but that's mostly because they try to make every point very clear, even for people from different backgrounds and people who might be challenged by speaking a foreign language
guillermo [18:06]
hello
Sandro Mathys [18:06]
on the other hand, Twitter's tries to be short and concise - hoping people understand anyway :simple_smile:
Sandro Mathys [18:07]
in content, both seem very similar - without having analysed every word :simple_smile:
micucci [18:07]
I don't mind the extra verbiage in KDE's. I think it's helpful to elaborate on what each term means
micucci [18:07]
It seems to put things into simple terms...
Sandro Mathys [18:08]
both are licensed freely (copyleft / CC-whatever) so we're free to copy them for our own purposes :simple_smile:
Sandro Mathys [18:08]
+1 @micucci
Ivan Kelly [18:09]
kde's says nothing about diversity
micucci [18:10]
It has a little blurb here: "We do not tolerate personal attacks, racism, sexism or any other form of discrimination. " but that seems to be the only word on the matter
Ernest Artiaga [18:10]
hi
Sandro Mathys [18:10]
yes, because Twitter's diversity statement is not really about conduct IMHO
Sandro Mathys [18:11]
it's more of a "by the way" statement
Ivan Kelly [18:12]
usually it's the first thing brought up when there is a breach of the CoC in that way though, that the org in question didn't have a diversity statement
Sandro Mathys [18:12]
KDE says everyone must feel welcome and such - which is the same in the end
micucci [18:14]
Basically, it boils down to "don't bring up personal issues and characteristics which are irrelevant to the discussion"
micucci [18:15]
For example, one's technical experience MIGHT actually matter. One's race or sexual orientation will never matter in this field... (in terms of being relevant to any technical discussion) (edited)
Ivan Kelly [18:16]
there's a difference to saying "don't be sexist/racist/etc", than "be welcoming to people of a different sex/race/etc" than you. Everyone has this idea that tech is a pure meritocracy, but often subconscious biases leak in
Sandro Mathys [18:17]
I don't have a strong opinion in this regard either way but generally prefer the KDE CoC. How about Taking the KDE CoC and adding Twitter's diversity statement at the bottom?
micucci [18:17]
@ivankelly: good points (edited)
yantarou [18:17]
@red: good idea
tomoe [18:17]
+1
Ivan Kelly [18:17]
yup, sounds good to me
Sandro Mathys [18:17]
Figure it can't hurt, even if it's a bit repetitive :simple_smile:
Sandro Mathys [18:18]
Alright, seems everyone is in favor of this :smile:
micucci [18:18]
In terms of listing them all out, in a perfect world, it shouldn't be necessary to be exhaustive...
micucci [18:18]
Just "don't be a jerk" kind of thing. :simple_smile:
Sandro Mathys [18:18]
Yea, in a perfect world... :simple_smile:
Jaume Devesa [18:19]
We can add it as the TL;DR version in the beggining of the document :simple_smile:
Brandon Berg [18:19]
Apologies if this is a stupid question, but what does it actually mean to have a code of conduct, in practical terms? How is it enforced, and what are the consequences of breaking it?
micucci [18:20]
I would assume one possible ramification could be removal from the list/group in question...
Ivan Kelly [18:21]
jerk is already a quite gendered term for example.
JF [18:21]
I dislike the “don’t be a jerk” statement, too generic
Sandro Mathys [18:22]
Well, usually the first step is trying to talk to the person violating the CoC and hopefully they will behave better in the future. Otherwise, it would probably be up to this council to discuss measures like exclusion from the project.
Sandro Mathys [18:23]
Defining the exact process will probably be the next step, and I can draft a proposal for it :simple_smile:
Sandro Mathys [18:24]
Alright, let's move on - we can discuss some more on the list if desired :simple_smile:
Sandro Mathys [18:24]
I'll skip the rest of the action items because I didn't find the time to do my part - sorry about that :disappointed: - and everyone else's was just "done", i.e. I think no discussion needed
Sandro Mathys [18:25]
Thanks to @jf and @devvesa for their work! :simple_smile:
Sandro Mathys [18:25]
@adjohn you here to talk about StackOverflow vs dedicated askbot?
Sandro Mathys [18:26]
Figure we'll postpone that topic then :simple_smile:
Sandro Mathys [18:27]
Last one for today is "MoinMoin vs MediaWiki vs Middleman" - but I think we'll only look for first opinions here today and discuss it some more later or on the mailing list
Sandro Mathys [18:27]
So our current wiki at http://wiki.midonet.org/ is a MoinMoin
Sandro Mathys [18:27]
But to be honest, looking at it, it's very obvious that no-one is comfortable with MoinMoin.
Sandro Mathys [18:28]
Not sure whether people are generally unused to wikis, or just MoinMoin but I tend towards the latter.
Sandro Mathys [18:29]
So MediaWiki as probably the most popular wiki nowadays has been brought up as an alternative.
yantarou [18:29]
I never heard of Middleman, so no idea about that. MediaWiki is probably well know to many people because it's used by Wikipedia.
Sandro Mathys [18:29]
OpenStack is using MediaWiki as well, so that might be a reason for that as well
Duarte Nunes [18:29]
that sounds too much like midolman
Sandro Mathys [18:30]
MediaWiki: https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/MediaWiki
Jaume Devesa [18:30]
Me neither. Is that one? https://middlemanapp.com/
Sandro Mathys [18:30]
Middleman: ^
Sandro Mathys [18:30]
yes, @devvesa was quicker :simple_smile:
Sandro Mathys [18:30]
Middleman is NOT a wiki
Jaume Devesa [18:30]
Looks cool. Which makes me be skeptical :smile:
Sandro Mathys [18:31]
It's a simple framework which generates static pages. (edited)
Jaume Devesa [18:31]
I makes me image UI + Ruby guys coding it in a San Francisco Starbucks
micucci [18:31]
I used MediaWiki at Roguewave and it worked great for us there
Jaume Devesa [18:31]
So, Middleman is some kind of Jekyll?
micucci [18:31]
it was easy and straightforward enough, I thought
Sandro Mathys [18:32]
Now, some projects use it as a wiki nevertheless - leveraging git (and the editor in GitHub)
Sandro Mathys [18:32]
so it might be good for developers I guess, but probably less so for other users.
Jaume Devesa [18:32]
Agree.
Sandro Mathys [18:32]
And yes, Jekyll is similar (but for static blogging, right?)
Jaume Devesa [18:32]
Yes. Jekyll is much focused for blogs (edited)
Jaume Devesa [18:33]
+1 MediaWiki
Sandro Mathys [18:33]
Personally, I would probably try to turn our homepage (http://www.midonet.org) into a Middleman powered site but use MediaWiki for the wiki
Galo [18:33]
what problem are we trying to fix?
Sandro Mathys [18:34]
+1 to @micucci, I also think it's very easy to use and actually much more intuitive than Moinmoin
Sandro Mathys [18:34]
I've actually used both MoinMoin and MediaWiki before and MoinMoin needed more gardening and was always kind of a pain in the ass to use (edited)
Sandro Mathys [18:36]
@galo: Two problems I guess, 1) I think people don't like working with MoinMoin, 2) people are clearly not used to MoinMoin where I'd expect them to be more familiar with MediaWiki (be it due to OpenStack's wiki or Wikipedia & co)
Galo [18:36]
personally, I'd go with whatever can be hosted in GH
Galo [18:36]
just to be consistent with the rest of projects, so people can do the same process for contributions
Sandro Mathys [18:37]
code contributions you mean - clearly, we have other ways to contribute :simple_smile:
Galo [18:37]
code, scripts, and documentation
Sandro Mathys [18:37]
right
Galo [18:38]
I'd personally avoid any deployment complexity (e.g., things needing databases)
Galo [18:38]
as this will need to be maintained by someone who is likely busy (edited)
Sandro Mathys [18:38]
that's a good point (that person likely being me, I like that point very much :wink: )
Galo [18:39]
GH seems good enough for me
Sandro Mathys [18:39]
But we also have to think about non-developer contributors - is GH an obstacle to them?
Sandro Mathys [18:40]
But maybe we're enough of a technical community so anyone is familiar enough with it
Galo [18:40]
well I think everyone likely to contribute is likely sufficiently technical to manage with GH
Galo [18:40]
either via web editor, or manually
Sandro Mathys [18:40]
Also, not sure how intuitive Middleman really is - unfortunately, I haven't had the time to look at it in detail
Galo [18:41]
IMO, I'd go with https://help.github.com/articles/about-github-wikis/
Just as writing good code and great tests are important, excellentdocumentation helps others use and extend your project.Every GitHub repository comes equipped with a section for hosting do…
Sandro Mathys [18:42]
That's a fair suggestion as well, didn't even know about that :simple_smile:
Jaume Devesa [18:42]
To me, the wiki and project documentation are different things
Jaume Devesa [18:43]
wiki should be more community-helper and tutorial and useful information, I am agree of having project documentation in GitHub
Sandro Mathys [18:43]
Is there anyone opposed to moving away from MoinMoin, though? If not, I'd try to compare MediaWiki, MiddleMan and GitHub Wikis a bit more detailed and come back with an overview (and maybe demos) :simple_smile:
Galo [18:43]
I thought we were talking about the community wiki, not project documentation
Galo [18:43]
I'm -1 on doing changes without a clear goal, specially if they imply maintenance
Jaume Devesa [18:43]
yes. this is why I got confused
Jaume Devesa [18:44]
do you think community wiki should be in github too?
Galo [18:44]
personally, yes
Sandro Mathys [18:44]
@galo: pretty sure MoinMoin requires maintenance as well :simple_smile:
Galo [18:44]
yes, but it's already in place, and controlled
Galo [18:45]
the only reason we have so far seems to be "the other one is nicer"
Galo [18:45]
anyway, that's my 2c, don't want to hijack this :simple_smile:
Jaume Devesa [18:45]
Not a strong opinion either. But I do not like MoinMoin.
Sandro Mathys [18:46]
Alright, seems we are very far away from any consensus - let's move this to the list, I'll start a thread or two. One on whether or not to keep MoinMoin and if we decide against it, one on the possible alternatives.
Jaume Devesa [18:46]
That's for sure
Sandro Mathys [18:46]
sound good? :simple_smile:
Galo [18:46]
k
Jaume Devesa [18:46]
:+1:
Sandro Mathys [18:47]
I'll be at CloudOpen Japan most of this week, so I won't be able to do all my todos before the next meeting - but I'll keep track of them and make sure they're dealt with in reasonable time
Sandro Mathys [18:48]
With that, we're at the end of today's agenda. Time to open the floor - anyone want to discuss something?
Sandro Mathys [18:49]
If not, we'll end our meeting a bit earlier today :simple_smile:
yantarou [18:49]
ok. thanks @red
tomoe [18:50]
Thanks @red
Sandro Mathys [18:50]
Alright, meeting adjourned - see you next week at 16:00 UTC
Sandro Mathys [18:50]
I'll send out summary / log and announcement / agenda of the next meeting "soon" :simple_smile:
micucci [18:50]
Thanks!
Sandro Mathys [18:50]
Thanks everyone for joining us today!
Jaume Devesa [18:51]
Thanks @red
tomoe [18:51]
have a good day everyone!
- When: Tuesday, 9 June 2015 at 16:00 UTC (9 AM PDT, 12 PM EDT, 18:00 CEST), duration: 60 minutes
- Where: #meetings on MidoNet Slack
- Who: Everyone interested in fostering the MidoNet community
- For more details, see Community Council Meetings
Meeting Chair: Sandro Mathys
- Roll Call: who's here?
- Status of Action Items from last meeting.
- Final approval of Code of Conduct (Owner: Sandro Mathys)
- All-in-One status (review)
- Ask using StackOverflow vs dedicated Askbot (Owner: adjohn)
- Add more agenda items here (or where you see fit)
- End: Open Floor
- When: Tuesday, 16 June 2015 at 09:00 UTC (11:00 CEST, 18:00 JST), duration: 60 minutes
- Where: #meetings on MidoNet Slack
- Who: Everyone interested in fostering the MidoNet community
- For more details, see Community Council Meetings
Meeting Chair: Sandro Mathys
- Roll Call: who's here?
- Status of Action Items from last meeting.
- Final approval of Code of Conduct (Owner: Sandro Mathys)
- All-in-One status (review)
- Stack Exchange vs Askbot vs no question platform (Owner: Sandro Mathys / Adam Johnson / Toni Segura)
- Add more agenda items here (or where you see fit)
- End: Open Floor
- Sandro Mathys still to draft guidelines for future MidoNet Blog purpose / usage.
- Sandro Mathys to continue MoinMoin / wiki discussion on the mailing list.
- Sandro Mathys to look into alternatives to MoinMoin (e.g. MediaWiki, Middleman, GitHub Wiki)
- Sandro Mathys to set up Askbot.### Outcome
- Sandro Mathys is still working on the Blog Usage Guidelines draft, see status here: BlogUsageGuidelines
- We're going to attempt replacing MoinMoin with the GitHub Wiki of the midonet/midonet repo
- Toni Segura still working on setting up Askbot to replace Stack Exchange
- Reminder: OpenStack Summit Tokyo CFP ending July 15
- We'll design new t-shirts to give away at OpenStack Summit Tokyo, send ideas to Sandro Mathys
- Heads-up from JF Joly: MidoNet release versioning will change from YYYY.MM to X.Y.Z, i.e. from date-based versions to semantic versions so 2015.09 will be released as 5.0.0 instead. This will require changes in many places (e.g. packaging, Puppet manifests, etc) and careful testing.
Sandro Mathys [18:00]
Community Council time! :simple_smile: Who's here?
Sandro Mathys [18:00]
set the channel topic: Community Council: http://wiki.midonet.org/CommunityCouncil/Meetings/2015-06-16
Sandro Mathys [18:00]
See the topic for the agenda :wink:
Sandro Mathys [18:01]
@channel it's okay to say hello now :simple_smile:
Jaume Devesa [18:01]
Howdy
micucci [18:01]
Ha~~i!
Sandro Mathys [18:02]
hey boys :simple_smile:
Duarte Nunes [18:02]
howdy
yamamoto [18:02]
hello
Sandro Mathys [18:02]
Yay, we are more people than last time *phew* :simple_smile:
Sandro Mathys [18:02]
Alright, this will probably be a quick one but let's get it started.
Sandro Mathys [18:02]
Joiners still welcome to say hi :simple_smile:
Galo [18:03]
hello
Sandro Mathys [18:03]
First up are the action items from the last meeting two weeks ago: http://wiki.midonet.org/CommunityCouncil/Meetings/2015-06-02/Meetings#Action_Items
Sandro Mathys [18:03]
I didn't have time to draft blog guidelines yet, but I did work on the Planet quite much :simple_smile:
Sandro Mathys [18:04]
http://planet.midonet.org/
Jaume Devesa [18:04]
Looks great @red
Sandro Mathys [18:04]
There's two rather unimportant bugs, both with badges - but it's pretty much in its final state otherwise.
Sandro Mathys [18:05]
It's already on GitHub and GerrtiHub, so feel free to add your own blog through a review.
Sandro Mathys [18:05]
Instructions here: http://wiki.midonet.org/PlanetMidoNet
Sandro Mathys [18:05]
(they're also linked from the planet itself)
Sandro Mathys [18:06]
Hope we have a few blogs aggregated there soon, so it doesn't look like a single blog anymore when I more formally announce it soon :wink:
Adam Johnson [18:07]
Looking nice!
Sandro Mathys [18:07]
Thanks :simple_smile:
Jaume Devesa [18:07]
I was ignorant about what was a Hackergochi
Jaume Devesa [18:08]
Most of the pictures in google are scary
Sandro Mathys [18:08]
It's also very responsive (scales well to different kinds of devices / different resolutions) thanks to the CSS framework that I used: bootstrap (http://getbootstrap.com/).
Bootstrap, a sleek, intuitive, and powerful mobile first front-end framework for faster and easier web development.
Sandro Mathys [18:09]
So if no-one has any concerns or such, I'll leave it pretty much as is :simple_smile: Of course, the theme / templates are on GitHub/GerritHub as well :wink:
Sandro Mathys [18:10]
Okay, next is the Code of Conduct. As decided last week, I merged KDE's and Twitter's and the result is now here: http://wiki.midonet.org/CodeOfConduct
Sandro Mathys [18:10]
Really a copy paste plus replacing some terms (like KDE, Twitter or desktop) to match out project.
Sandro Mathys [18:11]
If no-one has any concerns, I'll consider this approved :simple_smile:
Sandro Mathys [18:13]
Good, next is the wiki debate...I've now started the discussion on the mailing list and I think we'll continue it there for another week.
Sandro Mathys [18:14]
I've had a look at MediaWiki and like it so far. I tried looking at Middleman, but installing the ruby gem failed on me...like ruby gems always do :confused:
Jaume Devesa [18:15]
Typical answer from Ruby people is: 'use rvm!'
Sandro Mathys [18:15]
Not sure I'd like to maintain anything gem based...so I might scratch that option from the list unless someone else volunteers to maintain it :wink:
Alexander Gabert [18:15]
typical answer from it operations people: if you use rvm, your rootshell on production says 'bye bye'.
Sandro Mathys [18:16]
but yea, first up is the discussion on the mailing list - sticking with MoinMoin is still an option, even though I hate it a little bit more every other day I work with it :wink:
Sandro Mathys [18:16]
goot, that were all the action items from last time :simple_smile:
Sandro Mathys [18:17]
Next on the agenda is an "all-in-one review" without an owner...guessing that's wrt Puppet - so @devvesa?
Sandro Mathys [18:17]
that from you? :simple_smile:
Jaume Devesa [18:17]
Yes. I am the owner
Sandro Mathys [18:17]
good, what's the status then? :simple_smile:
Jaume Devesa [18:18]
The status is the all-in-one is available and running in the midonet.org web
Jaume Devesa [18:18]
there are some issues, @adjohn created one: https://midonet.atlassian.net/browse/MDT-26
Jaume Devesa [18:18]
because VNC does not run
Jaume Devesa [18:19]
but well, I think that it has to be fixed (for sure), but it is not critical at all
Sandro Mathys [18:19]
alright, sounds good :simple_smile:
Sandro Mathys [18:19]
thanks for implementing that @devvesa!
Jaume Devesa [18:19]
not too much feedback... which I don't know if it is good or bad
Jaume Devesa [18:20]
Also, the wiki page has been updated: http://wiki.midonet.org/MidoNet-allinone
Jaume Devesa [18:20]
Before, it assumed that you were using a vagrant. Now this assumption is out and, even though it needs more steps, I feel like is more flexible
Jaume Devesa [18:21]
for other non-dev environments
Sandro Mathys [18:21]
Well, I put the "Getting Help" just after the "Quickstart" on the homepage (it was much further down before), so hopefully people now where to complain if they hit issues :simple_smile:
Sandro Mathys [18:21]
yea, I like the new instructions quite much :simple_smile:
Jaume Devesa [18:21]
great! thanks :simple_smile:
Sandro Mathys [18:22]
Alright, that's everything right?
Sandro Mathys [18:23]
Next and last topic on the agenda is the "ask" / question-answer platform.
Alexander Gabert [18:24]
please invite everyone in the OSS community to send in openstack talks about their experience with midonet and network virtualization
Alexander Gabert [18:24]
it doesnt have to be a big shiny talk
Sandro Mathys [18:25]
@adjohn Pointed out, that we're currently linking to Stack Overflow, but the MidoNet tag actually can't be used right now because it would need to be created by someone with a lot of "reputation [points]" first.
Sandro Mathys [18:25]
@alexander we can discuss that during Open Floor time later :simple_smile:
Jaume Devesa [18:25]
I feel like we shouldn't put efforts on this, yet
Sandro Mathys [18:26]
It's also been pointed out by @toni, that all the Stack Exchange platforms are closed-source :disappointed:
Jaume Devesa [18:26]
People working on MidoNet small, and mailing lists should be enough, to me
Sandro Mathys [18:26]
So we'd like to suggest setting up our own askbot instead :simple_smile:
Sandro Mathys [18:26]
https://askbot.com/
Jaume Devesa [18:27]
Moreover, MidoNet is a complex product. I think to have an active conversation on those places, it should be a big base of users
Sandro Mathys [18:27]
Seriously guys, stick to the topic!
Jaume Devesa [18:27]
I am talking about this!
Jaume Devesa [18:27]
:simple_smile:
Sandro Mathys [18:27]
ah :simple_smile: sorry
Sandro Mathys [18:28]
thought you were talking about @alexander's input
Jaume Devesa [18:28]
No, no. I have my @alexander filter put it on :wink:
Sandro Mathys [18:28]
wise man :wink:
Sandro Mathys [18:28]
In that case, it's valid input of course :simple_smile:
Adam Johnson [18:29]
The mailing list is not getting any traction
Sandro Mathys [18:29]
So you're saying, that mailing lists and Slack should be good enough, and we should not get an askbot / other platform, then?
Adam Johnson [18:29]
It is comprised mostly of Midokura employees right now. Slack has nearly 2x the registered users
Adam Johnson [18:30]
and I feel that mailing lists do not offer a great interface for finding issues that others faced
Jaume Devesa [18:30]
Uhm... is there a way to put an Slack / Ask-StackExchange integration?
Sandro Mathys [18:30]
I don't mind much either way, but a question-answer platform might be a lower barrier than mailing lists but be as asynchronous
Adam Johnson [18:30]
Askbot has voting, and markers to indicate which response was the helpful response
Jaume Devesa [18:31]
It would be good some kind of alert here, then. I think we can not be aware of all the channels being so small community
Sandro Mathys [18:31]
the problem with Slack integrations (aka bindings) is: we only have a very limited number available, before Slack becomes expensive
Adam Johnson [18:31]
I think we could put an alert here if there's a post to Ask
Adam Johnson [18:31]
@red: we can use a bot
Adam Johnson [18:31]
like Hubot
Adam Johnson [18:32]
you get unlimited Hubot integrations. just ignore Slack integrations here.
Sandro Mathys [18:32]
I see
Adam Johnson [18:32]
Treat it like IRC in that regard
Sandro Mathys [18:32]
Figure someone has to do that, then :simple_smile: We also need a meeting bot and a log bot :wink:
Jaume Devesa [18:32]
I'm +1 on a #ask channel on slack, then
Adam Johnson [18:33]
Someone will have to volunteer to code it if one doesn't exist
Jaume Devesa [18:33]
I'm +100 on log bot
Adam Johnson [18:33]
logbot should be easy :simple_smile:
Jaume Devesa [18:34]
We need a log server, too
Jaume Devesa [18:34]
like eavesdrop.openstack.org
Jaume Devesa [18:34]
(that should be easy too)
Sandro Mathys [18:34]
I guess I can take a look at it...now that the planet is done, there's an empty spot on my todo list :wink: But there's also the wiki stuff and other things on there, so it won't happen soon.
Adam Johnson [18:34]
Yeah, I think the normal logbots can support that
Sandro Mathys [18:35]
But if someone else has some cycles, feel free to take the task :simple_smile:
Adam Johnson [18:35]
At least we can start by getting Askbot up and running, and work on the bot next
Sandro Mathys [18:35]
yes
Adam Johnson [18:36]
At least askbot has an API: http://askbot.org/doc/api.html
Sandro Mathys [18:37]
Alright, so can we agree on replacing the (quasi-dead) link to Stack Overflow with our own askbot?
Adam Johnson [18:38]
+1
Jaume Devesa [18:39]
+1
Sandro Mathys [18:40]
Hm, askbot is in all Fedoras and EPEL 6, need to ask the maintainers whether they'd be willing to maintain in for EPEL 7 as well, that would make installing and maintaining the service much simpler :simple_smile:
Sandro Mathys [18:40]
alright, I'll try to set up our own askbot soon-ish then :simple_smile:
Adam Johnson [18:40]
or you use pip easy_install
Sandro Mathys [18:41]
:simple_smile:
Sandro Mathys [18:41]
That's been the last topic, so time to open the floor :simple_smile:
Sandro Mathys [18:41]
@alexander: want to bring that topic up again?
Jaume Devesa [18:42]
turning off @alexander filter
Sandro Mathys [18:44]
Well, seems it was about asking the community to give talks about MidoNet - and yes, that's a good idea. I planned to set up a wiki page or something where we list all the events and CFP dates but that will take a while - but we can ask people without a list for now :simple_smile:
Sandro Mathys [18:45]
Another open floor topic: I probably won't be able to join/chair next week's meeting. Anyone else want to chair it, or should we cancel it for once?
Adam Johnson [18:46]
I'll take it on, assuming I'm free. I'll let you know later!
Sandro Mathys [18:47]
Hm, looking at my calendar again, I might just be lucky and be able to hold it, though...I'll check again and let the mailing list know :simple_smile:
Sandro Mathys [18:47]
other topics?
Sandro Mathys [18:48]
If not, we'll adjourn here :simple_smile: Hope people have new topics for the agenda, or we don't even need next weeks meeting :wink:
Sandro Mathys [18:50]
By the way, in case you missed it: we're in the process of scheduling developers meetings. One (integrations) is already on the calendar, another is added soon. A third one is still looking for a chair :simple_smile:
Sandro Mathys [18:50]
Integrations Meeting is detailed here: http://wiki.midonet.org/Integration%20Meetings - the first one happened only just hours ago :simple_smile:
Sandro Mathys [18:51]
Okay, meeting adjourned. Don't forget to add your on-topic blogs to the Planet! :simple_smile:
Sandro Mathys [18:51]
thanks for joining us today, everyone :simple_smile:
Jaume Devesa [18:54]
thanks!
- When: Tuesday, 23 June 2015 at 16:00 UTC (9 AM PDT, 12 PM EDT, 18:00 CEST), duration: 60 minutes
- Where: #meetings on MidoNet Slack
- Who: Everyone interested in fostering the MidoNet community
- For more details, see Community Council Meetings
Meeting Chair: Sandro Mathys
- Roll Call: who's here?
- Status of Action Items from last meeting.
- Add more agenda items here (or where you see fit)
- End: Open Floor
- When: Tuesday, 30 June 2015 at 09:00 UTC (11:00 CEST, 18:00 JST), duration: 60 minutes
- Where: #meetings on MidoNet Slack
- Who: Everyone interested in fostering the MidoNet community
- For more details, see Community Council Meetings
Meeting Chair: Sandro Mathys
- Roll Call: who's here?
- Status of Action Items from last meeting.
- Wiki migration revisited: MediaWiki vs Middleman vs GitHub Wikis, see also this post (Owner: Sandro Mathys)
- Q&A system revisited: Askbot vs LampCMS vs OSQA vs others (Owner: Sandro Mathys)
- Log the meetings. Doing manually is a pain in the ass (Owner: Jaume Devesa)
- Add more agenda items here (or where you see fit)
- End: Open Floor
- When: Tuesday, 7 July 2015 at 16:00 UTC (9 AM PDT, 12 PM EDT, 18:00 CEST), duration: 60 minutes
- Where: #meetings on MidoNet Slack
- Who: Everyone interested in fostering the MidoNet community
- For more details, see Community Council Meetings
Meeting Chair: Sandro Mathys
- Roll Call: who's here?
- Status of Action Items from last meeting.
- Wiki migration revisited: MediaWiki vs Middleman vs GitHub Wikis, see also this post (Owner: Sandro Mathys)
- Q&A system revisited: Askbot vs LampCMS vs OSQA vs others (Owner: Sandro Mathys)
- Log the meetings. Doing manually is a pain in the ass (Owner: Jaume Devesa)
- Moving to IRC (Owner: Jaume Devesa)
- Requirement and scheduling a release meeting (Owner: JF Joly)
- Lazy Consensus decision making (Owner: Sandro Mathys)
- Community t-shirt design for OpenStack Summit Tokyo (Owner: Sandro Mathys)
- OpenStack Summit Tokyo CFP (Owner: Sandro Mathys)
- Add more agenda items here (or where you see fit)
- End: Open Floor
- Sandro Mathys still to draft guidelines for future MidoNet Blog purpose / usage
- Sandro Mathys to migrate wiki to GitHub wikis, Adam Johnson to help
- Toni Segura to set up Askbot.
- Sandro Mathys to start a t-shirt design contest for OpenStack Summit Tokyo give aways
- JF Joly to send an email to the dev mailing list to start monthly (patch) release meetings### Outcome
- Adam Johnson started the MoinMoin to GitHub Wiki migration
- Toni Segura still working on setting up Askbot to replace Stack Exchange
- Ideas for the new community t-shirts' design or a design contest wanted, send to mailing list or Sandro Mathys
- MidoNet 2015.06 has been released!
- Reminder: OpenStack Summit Tokyo CFP ending July 15 at 23:59 PDT
- Sandro Mathys presented the BlogUsageGuidelines draft, which was voted on and put into effect
- Reminder: Things that can't go to The MidoNet Blog under these guidelines, can still to to PlanetMidoNet
- Lazy Consensus decision making was proposed by Sandro Mathys, based on Fedora Project governance policies which say: Many of our decisions can be made through "lazy consensus". Under this model, an intended action is announced on the mailing list, discussed, and if there is no controversy or dissenting views with a few days, simply done. After some discussion of the idea, "a few days" was defined as "10 days (240h) from the time the mail was sent" and then accepted as such.
Sandro Mathys [00:59]
set the channel topic: Community Council - Agenda: http://wiki.midonet.org/CommunityCouncil/Meetings/2015-07-07
Sandro Mathys [01:00]
Alright, let's get started with the Community Council Meeting :simple_smile: Who's around?
aojeam [01:00]
hi
Jaume Devesa [01:00]
is around
albert [01:00]
I’m here too
Sandro Mathys [01:01]
Before handing of to @jf, let's go through the action items from the last meeting: http://wiki.midonet.org/CommunityCouncil/Meetings/2015-06-16/Meetings#Action_Items
Sandro Mathys [01:01]
So I started working on the MidoNet Blog (blog.midonet.org) usage guidelines, but didn't get far before becoming busy with other things.
Toni Segura [01:02]
oしo
Sandro Mathys [01:02]
Here's some rough ideas: http://wiki.midonet.org/BlogUsageGuidelines
Toni Segura [01:02]
I'm here
Sandro Mathys [01:02]
if there's something that seems very wrong right now, let me know - otherwise I hope to have more next week :simple_smile:
Toni Segura [01:03]
looks very good to me
Toni Segura [01:03]
:wink:
Toni Segura [01:03]
good work
Sandro Mathys [01:04]
Otherwise, wiki is next up. So we found out most people would like to get rid of MoinMoin
Sandro Mathys [01:04]
thanks @toni :simple_smile:
lucas [01:04]
o/
Sandro Mathys [01:05]
We've also been under a spam attack for the past week or two - and while it's hard to prevent them independent of the wiki software, MoinMoin is also very bad at reverting the damage
Sandro Mathys [01:05]
So one more reason to look at alternatives.
Sandro Mathys [01:06]
I've reached out to the mailing list to discuss them, but there hasn't been any response :disappointed: We discussed them already at the last meeting some.
Toni Segura [01:06]
the wiki is dead, long live the wiki
Toni Segura [01:06]
I vote for mediawiki
Sandro Mathys [01:06]
The options we came up with were MediaWiki, Middleman and GitHub Wikis
Sandro Mathys [01:07]
Middleman is actually a static site generation framework and while we found out that some smaller Red Hat communities use them, truth is they only do because no-one but a few devs were editing the wiki anyway.
Sandro Mathys [01:07]
I do hope we'll find other contributors to the wiki as well, so I think that wouldn't serve us well.
Toni Segura [01:07]
that's exactly right
Toni Segura [01:08]
and github wikis suffer of a similar fault, IMHO
Sandro Mathys [01:08]
Having to commit changes through git will also raise the barrier particularly for small/quick fixes
Sandro Mathys [01:09]
Exactly, GitHub wikis are similar in that - plus, they are distributed, e.g. we could have one per repository but not one for the whole midonet group. That would most likely be very confusing.
Sandro Mathys [01:10]
Both solutions are also rather missing things like wiki categories and other such powerful tools, so not very ideal.
Jaume Devesa [01:10]
mediawiki +1
Sandro Mathys [01:10]
While MediaWiki might not be perfect either, I agree with @toni that it's our best choice :simple_smile:
Sandro Mathys [01:10]
If someone thinks differently, let us know your arguments now :simple_smile:
yantarou [01:11]
mediawiki +1
Toni Segura [01:11]
speak now...
Toni Segura [01:11]
or forever hold your peace
Sandro Mathys [01:11]
We currently have ~80 wiki pages, so migration shouldn't be too hard :simple_smile: Even though history and original editors will probably be lost.
Sandro Mathys [01:12]
And people will have to register again :simple_smile:
albert [01:12]
I don’t have strong opinion, what ever is easiest to maintain
Sandro Mathys [01:12]
Not sure how many people have registered anyway - the number of people who created pages is <10
Sandro Mathys [01:13]
Well, MediaWiki needs a server and a database - so it's not the easiest from the maintenance side.
Sandro Mathys [01:13]
System maintenance that is. Content maintenance is probably easiest with MediaWiki.
yantarou [01:14]
If no one else shouts for, I volunteer to setup and maintain it. Would be good to have a 2nd person involved though.
Toni Segura [01:14]
@red: would it be possible to use openid?
Sandro Mathys [01:14]
Nice, thanks @yantarou :simple_smile: Happy to help :simple_smile:
Toni Segura [01:15]
or do you think that for spam it will be better if you keep the registry manual
Toni Segura [01:15]
with approval from you
Toni Segura [01:15]
(maybe the second option will be better)
Sandro Mathys [01:15]
@toni good point, I would like that as well. Plus maybe social media based logins, if possible.
yantarou [01:15]
I think for now we should go with manual registration. If that get's to much of a burden we can consider Open ID.
albert [01:16]
+1 @yantarou
Galo [01:16]
+1
Sandro Mathys [01:17]
Not sure about Open ID, but I think the possibility to log in with FB/Twitter/Google+/GitHub would lower the barrier for many so if it's not too hard to do, I think we should look into it.
Toni Segura [01:17]
@yantarou: +1
Galo [01:17]
I personally prefer incremental steps
Adam Johnson [01:17]
Please try to stick with Github ID if possible
Adam Johnson [01:17]
we use that to track contributors..
Toni Segura [01:17]
I would maybe have social login but with manual confirmation
Sandro Mathys [01:18]
But manual registration should always be possible, I guess so we can get started with that
Sandro Mathys [01:18]
@toni: confirmation as in approval by an admin, or what kind of confirmation?
Sandro Mathys [01:19]
@adjohn: uh...that would not be very friendly towards non-developers :disappointed:
Adam Johnson [01:19]
@red: is it hard to sign up for a github account?
yantarou [01:19]
@red some kind of interaction that cannot easily be automated by e.g. a spam bot script
Toni Segura [01:19]
@red: some person pinging you on slack
Sandro Mathys [01:19]
@adjohn: no, but it's easier not to sign up for something new at all
Toni Segura [01:20]
saying, I just registered
Toni Segura [01:20]
can you approve
Toni Segura [01:20]
?
Toni Segura [01:20]
I believe in that kind of captcha
Adam Johnson [01:20]
How about just a simple deployment at first, with captchas, and if we see spam we can lock it down
Toni Segura [01:21]
alright
Sandro Mathys [01:21]
yea, I wouldn't want manual approval until really necesary
Sandro Mathys [01:22]
I'll check what options we have for login with @yantarou and post it to the mailing list or bring it up here next week, alright?
Adam Johnson [01:22]
Sorry to backtrack, but did we rule out Github wikis for some reason?
Adam Johnson [01:23]
It has inline editing, not requiring the use of Git
yantarou [01:24]
sounds gtm (edited)
Adam Johnson [01:24]
https://help.github.com/articles/about-github-wikis/
Just as writing good code and great tests are important, excellentdocumentation helps others use and extend your project.Every GitHub repository comes equipped with a section for hosting do…
Sandro Mathys [01:24]
Well, that's true. But it's still confusing because they are per repository and not per group.
Sandro Mathys [01:25]
And they seem generally be designed for small wikis/projects (therefore per repository) - they lack powerful options.
Adam Johnson [01:25]
It's not removing discovery of the wiki though.. wiki.midonet.org can point to the main wiki
Adam Johnson [01:25]
just put it all in midonet/midonet
Adam Johnson [01:25]
What powerful options do we use in a wiki?
yantarou [01:26]
I personally want to use subscription feature to "watch" a page.
Adam Johnson [01:26]
https://github.com/midonet/midonet/wiki
GitHub
midonet/midonet
midonet - MidoNet is an Open Source network virtualization system for Openstack clouds
Adam Johnson [01:26]
It's already there
Sandro Mathys [01:27]
Right now? Not many, partly because they're hard to use with MoinMoin and partly because they make more sense as we grow
Sandro Mathys [01:29]
Well, whatever people think works :simple_smile: Earlier, we had many +1 for MediaWiki so unless people change their minds....
Sandro Mathys [01:31]
Looks like people dozed off :disappointed:
Adam Johnson [01:31]
Ok, was just thinking that it would be nice to have a single sign on for everything (Github ID)
Adam Johnson [01:31]
and it would alleviate us from managing another piece of infrastructure
Adam Johnson [01:31]
But if there are flaws (I don't really understand what) then it's fine to move on
Sandro Mathys [01:31]
Guess I can agree with these points :simple_smile:
Galo [01:32]
I personally prefer GH, less systems, no infra maintenance
Sandro Mathys [01:33]
Can GitHub wiki do categories? That's one point I haven't found out yet
Galo [01:33]
do we need categories?
Galo [01:33]
what do categories achieve that pages don't
Galo [01:33]
?
yantarou [01:33]
guys, are we starting the discussion from 0 now (again)? (edited)
albert [01:33]
sounds like xD
Sandro Mathys [01:33]
well, it's a crucial decision - but yes, we've had this discussion for a couple of times already
Galo [01:34]
I haven't seen any real discussion above
Galo [01:34]
other than spam
Galo [01:34]
and notes re. features
yantarou [01:34]
that has been on the agenda since weeks.
Galo [01:34]
yes, I was in the first meeting, I proposed GH weeks ago
Sandro Mathys [01:34]
yea, the problem is that people don't reply on the mailing list :disappointed:
Galo [01:35]
my point is similar to what I think Adam is saying, I favour simplicity. GH is simpler. I could pay complexity for more features, but *only* if we do need the features
Galo [01:35]
I haven't seen any concrete argument for why we need more complex features than those offered by GH
Galo [01:35]
but if there are do go ahead with mediawiki
Toni Segura [01:35]
so we'd have to have a wiki repo
Toni Segura [01:35]
is that right?
Galo [01:36]
no, as was said before, stick everything in /midonet/midonet
Adam Johnson [01:36]
That can work, if you want to keep it neutral from the other repos
Galo [01:36]
which is the obvious destination for midonet
Toni Segura [01:36]
ok
Adam Johnson [01:36]
midonet/wiki
Galo [01:36]
or, another repo, equally fine
Toni Segura [01:36]
better midonet/midonet
Adam Johnson [01:36]
either way is good, right..
Toni Segura [01:36]
not like
Adam Johnson [01:36]
It's already there, ready to go :simple_smile:
Toni Segura [01:36]
but I can live with it :stuck_out_tongue:
Sandro Mathys [01:36]
Alright, if people think it's good enough and easier to maintain, let's try GitHub Wiki then :simple_smile:
Galo [01:37]
I +1 obviously :simple_smile:
Sandro Mathys [01:37]
I'll try a migration...maybe I now better where the weaknesses are later :wink:
Adam Johnson [01:37]
:simple_smile:
Sandro Mathys [01:37]
Let's move on in the agenda
Sandro Mathys [01:38]
askbot: didn't get to it yet (or rather, it's messier to set up than expected) - and I also came up with a new discussion around it, but we have more important things on the agenda, so let's leave action items.
Sandro Mathys [01:38]
@jf still there? :simple_smile:
JF [01:38]
yes
Sandro Mathys [01:39]
we have a release pending, so I think we move to "Requirement and scheduling a release meeting"
Toni Segura [01:40]
@red: I did some work on the askbot setup
JF [01:40]
this point should be fast from my side
Toni Segura [01:40]
I just didn't get around to finishing it either
Sandro Mathys [01:40]
@jf hit us :simple_smile:
Sandro Mathys [01:40]
@toni: got it :simple_smile:
JF [01:42]
we need to get organize for the change of version number,
JF [01:42]
we will need the input from the people involved in CI and deployment tools
Sandro Mathys [01:43]
for those who didn't follow the mailing list: we plan to move from YYYY.MM to X.Y.Z versioning with the september release :simple_smile:
JF [01:43]
and we also start to do patch releases :simple_smile:
Sandro Mathys [01:43]
So instead of 2015.09 it would become 5.0.0
Toni Segura [01:43]
is the issue with upgrading after the change addressed?
JF [01:44]
yes, that’s one of the point, we should list them
JF [01:44]
vdo, micucci and xavi.leon can probably help :wink:
Sandro Mathys [01:44]
Nothing is addressed yet, since we have yet to get 2015.06 out and it's a change that's going to happen afterwards :simple_smile:
JF [01:44]
yes
Adam Johnson [01:45]
Can we at least learn from another project who made the same change?
Sandro Mathys [01:45]
All of OpenStack is doing that change, so I guess yes
Adam Johnson [01:45]
Great
Sandro Mathys [01:46]
Hard to filter their thoughts/issue with the change out, though
JF [01:47]
I will start a thread on the ML to list the changes that needs to happen
Sandro Mathys [01:47]
great :simple_smile:
JF [01:47]
please contribute :simple_smile:
JF [01:48]
in order to organize the patch releases, we should have regular release meetings,
JF [01:49]
we could start with once a month to avoid creating too many extra meetings
JF [01:49]
thoughts?
Sandro Mathys [01:50]
Sounds good - not only for patch but also future regular releases. Why don't you propose a date/time on the dev mailing list? (edited)
JF [01:52]
ok, perfect, I’ll suggest it
Sandro Mathys [01:52]
(and create wiki pages and such, like we have for the other meetings)
Sandro Mathys [01:52]
Alright, we're running out of time - let me run through two quick agenda items before we close this.
Sandro Mathys [01:53]
First is a reminder, that the OpenStack Summit Tokyo CFP is closing soon!
Sandro Mathys [01:53]
I would like to encourage everyone to submit a MidoNet talk or two at https://www.openstack.org/summit/tokyo-2015/call-for-speakers/
Sandro Mathys [01:54]
Deadline is July 15 :simple_smile:
Sandro Mathys [01:55]
And speaking of OpenStack Summit Tokyo, we'd like to have even cooler community t-shirts to give away this time - so looking for cool designs! Let me know if you have any ideads :simple_smile:
Adam Johnson [01:56]
Maybe a design contest?
Sandro Mathys [01:56]
Might turn this into a contest, if we have a few talented engineers :wink:
Sandro Mathys [01:56]
s/engineers/designers/
Sandro Mathys [01:56]
dealing with engineers too much :stuck_out_tongue:
Sandro Mathys [01:57]
So you guys have a head-start, before we launch a contest of some sorts :wink:
Sandro Mathys [01:57]
Last but not least, in case you missed it: the OpenStack release after Liberty will be called Meiji
Sandro Mathys [01:57]
And with that, we'll adjourn this meeting unless someone has something urgent :simple_smile:
Sandro Mathys [01:58]
Sorry we didn't get through more of the agenda this time, but at least it won't be empty next time :wink:
Sandro Mathys [01:59]
If people did more discussion on the mailing list, we could safe much time here...so I encourage everyone to participate more on the lists :simple_smile:
Sandro Mathys [01:59]
Just in the unlikely case someone doesn't know yet, they can be found here: http://lists.midonet.org/listinfo :wink:
Sandro Mathys [02:00]
Alright, meeting adjourned. Thanks everyone for joining us and see you again next week at 09:00 UTC!
Galo [02:00]
byes
Sandro Mathys [02:00]
I'll send around the summary/log and invitation for next week like always :simple_smile:
- When: Tuesday, 14 July 2015 at 09:00 UTC (11:00 CEST, 18:00 JST), duration: 60 minutes
- Where: #meetings on MidoNet Slack
- Who: Everyone interested in fostering the MidoNet community
- For more details, see Community Council Meetings
Meeting Chair: Sandro Mathys
- Roll Call: who's here?
- Status of Action Items from last meeting.
- MidoNet 2015.06 released (Owner: Sandro Mathys)
- OpenStack Summit CFP Reminder (Owner: Sandro Mathys)
- MidoNet Blog Usage Guidelines (Owner: Sandro Mathys)
- Lazy Consensus decision making (Owner: Sandro Mathys)
- Example from Fedora Project: Many of our decisions can be made through "lazy consensus". Under this model, an intended action is announced on the mailing list, discussed, and if there is no controversy or dissenting views with a few days, simply done.
- Add more agenda items here (or where you see fit)
- End: Open Floor
- Sandro Mathys to migrate wiki to GitHub wikis, Adam Johnson to help
- Toni Segura to set up Askbot.
- Sandro Mathys to start a t-shirt design contest for OpenStack Summit Tokyo give aways
- JF Joly to send an email to the dev mailing list to start monthly (patch) release meetings
- JF Joly to blog about the MidoNet 2015.06 release
- Sandro Mathys to document Lazy Consensus Decision Making somewhere### Outcome
- The wiki migrations to https://github.com/midonet/midonet/wiki has been finished
- http://wiki.midonet.org is now forwarding to the new wiki. The redirect is page-aware, so if someone tries to access a specific page on the old wiki, the redirect should point to the correct new place for the same content. Still, all links should be updated for the new wiki at this point.
- Ask MidoNet has now been set up and can be found at https://ask.midonet.org/ - please seed it with common questions and such before we promote it, so it doesn't look so empty. Note, that questions will still be welcome on the mailing lists and Slack.
- The MidoNet 2015.06/.1 release has now also been announced on the blog: http://blog.midonet.org/midonet-2015-06-release/
- The proposed move from Slack (back) to IRC was met with general agreement by everyone present. Among other things, it would make working with other projects and attracting developers from related projects much easier. However, such a major decision will also need to be discussed on the mailing list.
- MidoNet Online Meetups will resume soon, with talks from JF Joly and Toni Segura being scheduled soon. Time to recommend http://www.meetup.com/Online-MidoNet-Meetup/ to people interested in MidoNet! Proposals for additional talks (form, audience and level are up to the speaker) are always welcome.
- A new [Governance] overview page was introduced, and that's also where the lazy consensus decision making rule, that has been put into effect at the last meeting, has been documented.
- Unfortunately, we don't have a list of talk proposals for the OpenStack Summit Tokyo about OSS MidoNet, but Midokura compiled a list with all MidoNet (both community and enterprise) talks here: http://blog.midokura.com/2015/07/voting-now-open-openstack-summit-tokyo/
Sandro Mathys [17:59]
set the channel topic: Community Council - Agenda: http://wiki.midonet.org/CommunityCouncil/Meetings/2015-07-14
Sandro Mathys [18:00]
@here who's here for the community council meeting?
Galo [18:00]
me
yamamoto [18:00]
hi
dmd [18:01]
hello!
Ivan Kelly [18:01]
:hand:
Carmela Rubiños [18:01]
hi!
Alex Bikfalvi [18:01]
hi
Sandro Mathys [18:01]
That was quick :smile:
Sandro Mathys [18:01]
ICYMI, agenda is here: http://wiki.midonet.org/CommunityCouncil/Meetings/2015-07-14 (edited)
Sandro Mathys [18:02]
For some reason, all the agenda items say I'm the owner, so we need either to have more people add topics or delegate more work :wink:
Sandro Mathys [18:02]
Let's start with looking back at the last meeting's action items: http://wiki.midonet.org/CommunityCouncil/Meetings/2015-07-07/Meetings#Action_Items (edited)
JF [18:03]
hi!
Toni Segura [18:03]
I meant, I'm here
Sandro Mathys [18:04]
We'll discuss MidoNet Blog Guidelines as a separate point in a moment. (edited)
Sandro Mathys [18:05]
Migration to GitHub wiki has begun - thanks to @adjohn. But we still have lots to do, so keep working on the old wiki in the meantime.
Sandro Mathys [18:05]
Of course, more helping hands are welcome. Just pick a page from the wiki and convert/move it. New wiki is at https://github.com/midonet/midonet/wiki
GitHub
midonet/midonet
midonet - MidoNet is an Open Source network virtualization system for Openstack clouds
ryu [18:05]
hi
Toni Segura [18:05]
Blug? (edited)
Sandro Mathys [18:06]
Blog :stuck_out_tongue:
Sandro Mathys [18:06]
there :stuck_out_tongue:
Sandro Mathys [18:07]
@toni you offered to set up Askbot but were distracted with more important things - any progress since last week?
Toni Segura [18:07]
sadly no
Sandro Mathys [18:07]
alright, we'll revisit in a week :wink:
Toni Segura [18:07]
ok
Sandro Mathys [18:08]
Next on the action items is the t-shirt design contest...but I didn't even have time to come up with an idea for it. So we'll have to revisit this as well. If anyone has input on this (or the t-shirt design itself), let me know any time :wink:
Toni Segura [18:08]
idea for the contest of for the shirt? (edited)
Sandro Mathys [18:09]
both :simple_smile:
Sandro Mathys [18:10]
And, last for the action items, I think @jf did not yet find the time to schedule release meetings as well - damn, we must have had a busy week :simple_smile: We did have a release in the meantime, though - which brings us to today's agenda.
Sandro Mathys [18:11]
ICYMI, MidoNet 2015.06 has been released: http://wiki.midonet.org/ReleaseNotes2015.06
JF [18:11]
it’s on the list, I will send an email to organize the release meetings :simple_smile:
Sandro Mathys [18:11]
A blog post about it will follow soon (thanks @jf!)
Adam Johnson [18:11]
:fireworks:
JF [18:11]
that too :smile:
Sandro Mathys [18:11]
Congratulations to everyone involved with the release! :simple_smile:
JF [18:11]
congrats everyone!
Sandro Mathys [18:12]
Next up, I'd like to remind everyone of the OpenStack Summit Tokyo CFP - deadline is soon. July 15 by midnight (PDT) I think.
Toni Segura [18:13]
Already sent a proposal :simple_smile:
Sandro Mathys [18:13]
yes "CURRENTLY ACCEPTING PRESENTATION SUBMISSIONS UNTIL JULY 15TH, 2015, 11:59 PM PDT" https://www.openstack.org/summit/tokyo-2015/call-for-speakers/ (edited)
Sandro Mathys [18:13]
So everyone submit lots of talks on MidoNet :smile:
Sandro Mathys [18:14]
and hurry up :stuck_out_tongue:
Sandro Mathys [18:14]
As mentioned, I finally drafted the blog usage guidelines: http://wiki.midonet.org/BlogUsageGuidelines
Sandro Mathys [18:14]
You might remember, that last week I only had the bullet points, now I've added some text around them :wink:
Sandro Mathys [18:16]
They're basically supposed to keep blog.midonet.org on-topic, and interesting for "casual readers" that are interested in major news but not anything anyone in the community is musing.
Sandro Mathys [18:16]
For the latter, we have planet.midonet.org which you're still all invited to add your blog to :simple_smile:
Toni Segura [18:16]
I have to set up my blog one of these days
Sandro Mathys [18:16]
So, thouhgs on those guidelines?
Sandro Mathys [18:17]
or votes on putting them into effect?
Sandro Mathys [18:18]
@here any comments / votes? :stuck_out_tongue:
Toni Segura [18:19]
I'd just add that downloadables should be in open formats
Toni Segura [18:19]
otherwise +1
yantarou [18:20]
looks good to mee, too
Sandro Mathys [18:23]
Added a rule "Must only contain publicly accessible links and downloads must come in open formats." is that okay?
Toni Segura [18:23]
perfect, thanks
Sandro Mathys [18:23]
Thanks for the input :simple_smile:
Sandro Mathys [18:23]
Still okay with you @yantarou?
yantarou [18:23]
of course
Sandro Mathys [18:23]
Alright, I'll remove the "Work in progress" note then :simple_smile:
Toni Segura [18:24]
:wink:
Sandro Mathys [18:24]
That brings us to the last point for today already (unless someone has something for the open floor later on).
Sandro Mathys [18:25]
I propose we introduce a Lazy Consensus decision making rule.
Sandro Mathys [18:26]
Basically, we sometimes can't make proper decisions, because we lack votes. While we don't have any quorum rules, I still felt we should not make decisions based on only a very few votes (or even only few people present) - I always assumed we would only make decisions with a "good number" of people present and voting.
Sandro Mathys [18:27]
However, in the recent weeks, we often had no or very response at all - both on mailing lists and meetings (some topics were covered on both, multiple times - with no reaction). So for these situations, I propose we add a lazy consensus decision making rule similar to one that the Fedora Project's governance bodies are often using.
Sandro Mathys [18:28]
Citing from their wiki: "Many of our decisions can be made through "lazy consensus". Under this model, an intended action is announced on the mailing list, discussed, and if there is no controversy or dissenting views with a few days, simply done."
Toni Segura [18:28]
can you explain more about it?
Toni Segura [18:28]
oh, I like it enough
Toni Segura [18:28]
what's the few days 'few'?
Sandro Mathys [18:29]
So basically, when opening a decision making discussion on the mailing list (maybe after it was punt there from the chat meeting), the author can request lazy consensus and set a fair time period for it.
Sandro Mathys [18:30]
We can define the required time period if we want - in Fedora they seem to manage without a definition.
Adam Johnson [18:30]
+1
Sandro Mathys [18:31]
But abuse of it (lazy consensus in 10s!), would be against the CodeOfConduct I guess.
Toni Segura [18:31]
ok
Toni Segura [18:31]
+1
Toni Segura [18:31]
10 days?
ryu [18:31]
+1
Sandro Mathys [18:32]
Not sure what a good period is, if we think we need to define one
ryu [18:32]
a week?
Sandro Mathys [18:33]
6 days would be good so something can be brought up on the mailing list after a meeting and the result is clear at the next meeting. But if someone is off for a week for whatever reason, it might be too short.
Toni Segura [18:33]
7-10 days are good for me
Toni Segura [18:33]
7 days counting the day of mailing
Toni Segura [18:33]
is the same as your 6 :wink:
yantarou [18:34]
what about "until next council". if the 2nd council doesn't give a majority decision, then go for lazy consensus.
Sandro Mathys [18:34]
So maybe a period that is longer than one week but shorter than two weeks (i.e. only "skip" one meeting)
yantarou [18:34]
ah, ok in case of mailing there's no council
ryu [18:34]
i have a feeling obvious decisions may not require waiting 7~10 days
Sandro Mathys [18:35]
and not so obvious ones should get concerns raised fast?
ryu [18:35]
like ditching git for bzr ( @toni would respond in less than 10 seconds)
Toni Segura [18:35]
:stuck_out_tongue:
ryu [18:35]
no matter where he is in the world
Toni Segura [18:35]
absolutely
Toni Segura [18:36]
I'll make a bot for that
ryu [18:36]
well 7~10 works for me
ryu [18:36]
as long as everyone is ok with waiting that long for all decisions
Toni Segura [18:36]
the bot will link to http://www.nooooooooooooooo.com/
star wars, star wars lightsabers,star wars lightsaber,darth vader,star wars light saber,star wars clone wars,star war,darth vader pictures,darth vader,r2d2,yoda,vader,anakin,darth vader lightsaber,stormtrooper,darth vader lightsaber,jedi,padme,sith,darth maul,darth vader clone,unleashed darth vader,wars darth vader,rebelscum star wars,droid star wars,grievous star wars,clone trooper,star wars darthvader,star wars luke skywalker,chewbacca star wars,star wars emperor,star wars anakin darth vader,boba Show more...
Toni Segura [18:36]
everytime bzr is mentioned
Toni Segura [18:36]
:stuck_out_tongue:
Sandro Mathys [18:37]
If we define it, I think we should give an exact number. So 10 days (as in 240h)? (edited)
yantarou [18:38]
+1
Sandro Mathys [18:38]
...from the time requesting lazy consensus by email. (edited)
ryu [18:38]
+1
Toni Segura [18:39]
+1 and it would be awesome if there is a countdown page :stuck_out_tongue: (edited)
Sandro Mathys [18:39]
I've seen no disagreement, so let's go with that. I'll find a place to document it :wink:
Sandro Mathys [18:39]
And @toni volunteers to create an automatic countdown, nice!
Sandro Mathys [18:39]
:stuck_out_tongue:
Sandro Mathys [18:40]
Alright, that's it from the agenda for today :simple_smile:
Toni Segura [18:40]
well, I propose a lazy voting on it being jaume
:-1:1
Sandro Mathys [18:40]
Anything else we need to discuss?
Toni Segura [18:40]
:simple_smile:
Toni Segura [18:40]
let's see if he notices
Sandro Mathys [18:40]
seems you already got voted down on the lazy consensus there :stuck_out_tongue:
Sandro Mathys [18:41]
open floor - anyone, anything?
Sandro Mathys [18:41]
Alright, if not, we'll adjourn the meeting and I hope to see everyone again next week! :simple_smile:
Sandro Mathys [18:42]
Next meeting is on July 21 at 16:00 UTC :simple_smile:
Toni Segura [18:42]
ok, thanks
Toni Segura [18:42]18:42
until next week :wink:
yantarou [18:42]
see you ..
Sandro Mathys [18:42]
Agenda here, if you want to add something: http://wiki.midonet.org/CommunityCouncil/Meetings/2015-07-21
ryu [18:42]
thanks! bye!
Sandro Mathys [18:43]
And I'll send around the log/summary and invitation like always.
Sandro Mathys [18:43]
Thanks everyone!
- When: Tuesday, 21 July 2015 at 16:00 UTC (9 AM PDT, 12 PM EDT, 18:00 CEST), duration: 60 minutes
- Where: #meetings on MidoNet Slack
- Who: Everyone interested in fostering the MidoNet community
- For more details, see Community Council Meetings
Meeting Chair: Sandro Mathys
- Roll Call: who's here?
- Status of Action Items from last meeting.
- Wiki migration: done (Owner: Sandro Mathys)
- Log the meetings. Doing manually is a pain in the ass (Owner: Jaume Devesa)
- Moving to IRC (Owner: Jaume Devesa)
- Online Meetups (Owner: Sandro Mathys)
- Add more agenda items here (or where you see fit)
- End: Open Floor
- When: Tuesday, 28 July 2015 at 09:00 UTC (11:00 CEST, 18:00 JST), duration: 60 minutes
- Where: #meetings on MidoNet Slack
- Who: Everyone interested in fostering the MidoNet community
- For more details, see Community Council Meetings
Meeting Chair: Sandro Mathys
- Roll Call: who's here?
- Status of Action Items from last meeting.
- Wiki migration: done (Owner: Sandro Mathys)
- Documenting "lazy consensus decision marking" rule: draft proposed, see separate agenda item (Owner: Sandro Mathys)
- Askbot set up as Ask MidoNet, now seeding (Owner: Sandro Mathys)
- Log the meetings. Doing manually is a pain in the ass (Owner: Jaume Devesa)
- Moving to IRC (Owner: Jaume Devesa)
- Online Meetups (Owner: Sandro Mathys)
- Draft: Governance (Owner: Sandro Mathys)
- featuring implementation of "lazy consensus decision marking" rule
- Add more agenda items here (or where you see fit)
- End: Open Floor
- JF Joly still to send an email to the dev mailing list to start monthly (patch) release meetings
- Sandro Mathys to make sure Ask MidoNet is seeded
- Jaume Devesa to send an email to the mailing list to discuss the move from Slack to IRC.
Sandro Mathys [18:00]
Alright, meeting time :simple_smile: Who's here?
Sandro Mathys [18:00]
Agenda is at https://github.com/midonet/midonet/wiki/Community-Council-Agenda
GitHub
midonet/midonet
midonet - MidoNet is an Open Source network virtualization system for Openstack clouds
Sandro Mathys [18:00]
@here hello everyone :simple_smile:
aojeam [18:02]
hi
Sandro Mathys [18:03]
yay, at least someone :smile:
Carmela Rubiños [18:03]
hi!
lucas [18:04]
hello
Ivan Kelly [18:04]
hi
Sandro Mathys [18:05]
Hello everyone :simple_smile:
Sandro Mathys [18:05]
Hoping @devvesa is also going to show up as he owns half of today's agenda :wink:
lucas [18:06]
he’s arriving
Jaume Devesa [18:07]
hi!
Jaume Devesa [18:07]
o/
Jaume Devesa [18:07]
sorry I am late
Jaume Devesa [18:07]
I am a coffee addict
Sandro Mathys [18:07]
I was hoping for some folks from outside Europe as well...but well, let's get started :wink:
Sandro Mathys [18:07]
I'll keep the action items review short.
guillermo [18:07]
hello
Sandro Mathys [18:08]
We migrated the wiki to https://github.com/midonet/midonet/wiki and http://wiki.midonet.org does now redirect people there
slackbot [18:08] Only you can see this message
Pssst! I didn’t unfurl https://github.com/midonet/midonet/wiki because it was already shared in this channel quite recently (within the last hour) and I didn’t want to clutter things up.
Sandro Mathys [18:08]
The redirect is also page-aware, i.e. specific links get redirected to the right place, too :simple_smile:
Sandro Mathys [18:08]
Still, wiki.midonet.org might go away, so links should be updated.
Sandro Mathys [18:09]
I documented the lazy consensus decision making rule, but will make that part of a separate agenda item
Sandro Mathys [18:09]
And, I've finally set up askbot - Ask MidoNet can now be found at https://ask.midonet.org/
Questions and answers about MidoNet
Sandro Mathys [18:10]
We're not yet promoting it outside of the core community because we'd like to seed it first.
Sandro Mathys [18:10]
Everyone is welcome to add a few Qs and give some As :wink:
Sandro Mathys [18:10]
Also, let me know if there's any issues or something is unclear about it :simple_smile:
Sandro Mathys [18:11]
@jf blogged about the 2015.06/.1 release(s) here, feel free to share the link: http://blog.midonet.org/midonet-2015-06-release/
The MidoNet Blog
MidoNet 2015.06 release - The MidoNet Blog
The MidoNet project is pleased to announce the release of MidoNet 2015.06. (78KB)
July 16th at 22:44
Jaume Devesa [18:11]
Is there any policy to establish whether we should put Q on ask or in mailing list?
Sandro Mathys [18:11]
...and he's probably also going to give a talk about it at an online meetup that we're about to schedule :simple_smile:
Sandro Mathys [18:12]
@devvesa: no, whatever you like better :simple_smile:
guillermo [18:12]
i'd encourage people to post Q's to the mailing list
guillermo [18:12]
then feed documentation
Sandro Mathys [18:12]
trying to lower the barrier for (new) users - whatever suits them best
guillermo [18:12]
unless we want a dead mailing list
Galo [18:12]
hi, sorry I?m late too
guillermo [18:12]
in which case we can just call it, 'list'
Sandro Mathys [18:12]
well, if users don't like mailing lists, we should not force them there, I think
Sandro Mathys [18:13]
So far, we've only had mailing lists and the user list is pretty much dead - so hoping Ask will a bit more action
Jaume Devesa [18:13]
maybe a good compromise would be to speak about new functionalities on mailing list and 'support' questions for already released features on ask
Jaume Devesa [18:14]
don't take it seriously, just a quick idea right now
Sandro Mathys [18:15]
Well, we decided in an earlier meeting that we'll set up an askbot and we've had a (broken) link to Stack Overflow all the time - so we'll go with it for now. If it needs any policies, please schedule them for a meeting and we'll discuss it :simple_smile:
guillermo [18:15]
ML gets pushed to people, people have to go to ask explicitly, with the amount of participation we have, splitting activity on two channels is bad IMHO
guillermo [18:15]
i'm not against ask
Jaume Devesa [18:15]
this was my point when we talked about it, @guillermo
guillermo [18:15]
i'm against bypassing the mailing list
Sandro Mathys [18:16]
people also need to subscribe the list first - which not too many have done :simple_smile: People can ask questions on Ask without registering :simple_smile:
guillermo [18:16]
anyway, my 2c
Sandro Mathys [18:16]
But as I said, we need to schedule this for another time if we need some policies or such :simple_smile:
Jaume Devesa [18:16]
but by consensus we agreed is better to have two channels and let the people choose
guillermo [18:16]
again, i'm not against Ask, I'd encourage *current* project participants to go to the ML first
guillermo [18:17]
and then feed Ask
Sandro Mathys [18:17]
we can always encourage that, of course :simple_smile:
Sandro Mathys [18:17]
that's been it from the action items - @devvesa there's two agenda items from you, which one do you want to deal with first? :wink:
Jaume Devesa [18:19]
up to you
Sandro Mathys [18:19]
Well, let's start with `Moving to IRC` then :simple_smile:
Jaume Devesa [18:19]
+1000, move on
Jaume Devesa [18:19]
:smile:
Jaume Devesa [18:21]
Seriously: I am absolutely for moving to IRC: more devs are used to use it, plugins for logging, more community-focused
Jaume Devesa [18:21]
what the rest of the people here think about it?
Carmela Rubiños [18:21]
I totally agree
Galo [18:21]
+1
Sandro Mathys [18:22]
I agree, particularly the more we try to cooperate with other communities - like RDO, OPNFV, etc.
Sandro Mathys [18:22]
And I assume it already is wrt existing communities we're related to, like OpenStack/Neutron
Sandro Mathys [18:23]
Concerns of course, are users who might not be familiar with IRC - and Slack is probably more intuitive to them
Sandro Mathys [18:23]
But most (prospective) users also interact with those other communities, so they probably know IRC already.
Sandro Mathys [18:23]
And there's good web clients for IRC nowadays
Carmela Rubiños [18:23]
I think most of the IT people are used to IRC, I actually don’t know anyone who never used IRC (mostly freenode) for technical purposes
Sandro Mathys [18:24]
e.g. this: https://kiwiirc.com/client/irc.freenode.net:+/midonet/?nick=guest? (we could even add a widget on our website for that)
Sandro Mathys [18:25]
@carmela: that's only true for OSS enthusiasts, I'd say. I know e.g. a lot of VMware operators who have no idea about IRC
Carmela Rubiños [18:25]
yeah, that would facilitate the things for anyone that does not want to install an IRC client
Galo [18:27]
this depends on the audience
Sandro Mathys [18:27]
So, it looks like everyone present agrees - but as @galo suggested before the meeting, we should probably also give people a chance to weigh in asynchronously.
Galo [18:27]
if what we want is developers to join, we should use IRC
Galo [18:27]
if we want users, probably other systems are better as people is not used to join IRC
Galo [18:27]
they are two separate audiences and I think it's a mistake to conflate both
Duarte Nunes [18:28]
slack is gaining traction (e.g., https://dist-sys-slack.herokuapp.com/)
Jaume Devesa [18:28]
users can be encouraged to use ask or mailing lists right?
Carmela Rubiños [18:28]
with solutions like kiwiirc.com you don’t need to know how IRC works, it’s really similar to slack.com but without need to register. I mean, for the final user it doesn’t matter which protocol is behind the client
Carmela Rubiños [18:29]
and on the other hand, it’s what galo said, more developers would join if we are on freenode
Toni Segura [18:29]
I'm probably late but..
Toni Segura [18:29]
+1 for irc
Sandro Mathys [18:30]
I think, there's two kinds of users: 1) enthusiasts who already interact with other projects (over mailing lists or IRC) and 2) people who pay for enterprise services and they will neither join IRC nor Slack :wink:
Sandro Mathys [18:31]
Or are there really users who don't use mailing lists or IRC and are still interacting with other projects? If so, how?
Sandro Mathys [18:31]
Most projects I know provide mailing lists and IRC channels, some also Ask or a forum - and except for the forum, we provide all of that as well :simple_smile:
Toni Segura [18:32]
I wouldn't overthink this... Developers want IRC, we move development and integration discussions to irc
Toni Segura [18:33]
For my team (integrations and installers) it is much easier to get people of the other side to join our channel and collaborate
Carmela Rubiños [18:33]
but I think the point is (in the option 1) to use slack or IRC or another solution, but not all of them; and moreover to have a mailing list for “other kind” of users
Sandro Mathys [18:34]
well, I'd rather not have both @toni :simple_smile:
Toni Segura [18:34]
I answered to many times the: `What's your IRC channel, I'll come to discuss` with `Well... You see... We use something called slack`
Sandro Mathys [18:35]
agreed, not being on IRC is a major hurdle for interaction with other projects
Sandro Mathys [18:35]
@devvesa: could you write a summary of what's been said and also invite the mailing list to the discussion? Just so we've covered both, sync and async communication channels. Or should I do it? :wink:
Sandro Mathys [18:36]
Or someone else :simple_smile:
Toni Segura [18:36]
@red: I can't talk for general nor operators, but:
-containers,
- fuel
- juju-charms
I can say that they would be easily on IRC
Toni Segura [18:36]
also for developers for my part
yamamoto [18:36]
is slack irc gateway usable?
Toni Segura [18:36]
but there are much bigger users
Sandro Mathys [18:36]
+rdo, +opnfv, ... the list is very long :wink:
Toni Segura [18:36]
so I defer to them
Jaume Devesa [18:36]
@red: :+1:
Toni Segura [18:36]
@yamamoto: I would rather not go that path
Toni Segura [18:37]
it is not convenient
Toni Segura [18:37]
it's too one-sided
Sandro Mathys [18:38]
agreed
Sandro Mathys [18:38]
@devvesa: alright, thanks :simple_smile:
Sandro Mathys [18:39]
next topic than, is `Log the meetings. Doing manually is a pain in the ass` @devvesa
Toni Segura [18:39]
on irc we can just put the meetbot
Jaume Devesa [18:39]
well, we can discuss that one once the Slack vs IRC is decided
Toni Segura [18:39]
like everybody else does...
Jaume Devesa [18:39]
but I am with toni: with IRC is far easier
Jaume Devesa [18:39]
and well tested
Sandro Mathys [18:39]
okay, thought so @devvesa :simple_smile:
Sandro Mathys [18:39]
@toni yes, indeed, meetbot :heart:
Sandro Mathys [18:40]
btw, since we used IRC before moving to Slack - do we have a proper bot set up already?
Sandro Mathys [18:40]
(that's still running or could just be enabled again?)
Toni Segura [18:40]
there used to be one
Toni Segura [18:41]
I can't recall
Sandro Mathys [18:41]
okay, I can set up a supybot with meetup plugin then :simple_smile:
Toni Segura [18:41]
it's not there anymore
Sandro Mathys [18:41]
so we'll postpone the logging discussion to see whether it becomes obsolete :simple_smile:
Sandro Mathys [18:42]
next are Online Meetups, which live here: http://www.meetup.com/Online-MidoNet-Meetup/
Meetup
Online MidoNet Network Virtualization Meetup
This is the home of all online meetups related to network virtualization, with a focus on MidoNet, the open source network virtualization platform. We'll cover topics related to development, operation
Sandro Mathys [18:42]
There's only been one so far, but we want to have them more regularly in future
Sandro Mathys [18:42]
So please spread the word about that meetup group :simple_smile:
Sandro Mathys [18:43]
Also, we currently are looking into @jf and @toni giving two separate presentations - but we'll need more people presenting later on, so please do let me know if you have anything to present :simple_smile:
Sandro Mathys [18:43]
the form is completely free - 20 minutes are as good as 50 minutes, slides as good as a demo, ...
Toni Segura [18:44]
I'm sure @devvesa will want to do one about fuel deployment
Toni Segura [18:44]
:simple_smile:
Sandro Mathys [18:44]
(if no-one speaks up, we'll just let @toni give a presentation once a month :wink: ) (edited)
Jaume Devesa [18:44]
Why everybody assumes that I am eager to work?
Jaume Devesa [18:44]
:smile:
Toni Segura [18:44]
@devvesa: because we know you :stuck_out_tongue:
Sandro Mathys [18:45]
oh, of course, all levels and different target groups are welcome as well :simple_smile:
Sandro Mathys [18:46]
so yea, let me know if you'd like to present at some point :smile:
Sandro Mathys [18:46]
Last topic for today - I set up a Governance wiki page: https://github.com/midonet/midonet/wiki/Governance
slackbot [18:46] Only you can see this message
Pssst! I didn’t unfurl https://github.com/midonet/midonet/wiki/Governance because it was already shared in this channel quite recently (within the last hour) and I didn’t want to clutter things up.
Sandro Mathys [18:47]
It's a draft right now, but there's hopefully nothing new on it - just things, that might have been unclear for newcomers so far.
Sandro Mathys [18:47]
Plus, it's where I documented the lazy consensus rule from the last meeting
Sandro Mathys [18:48]
so, as you can see, it's basically just stating that we don't have formal (elected or appointed) governance bodies but free-for-all meetings instead. And that there's basically the group that mostly cares about development and the group that cares about the rest :wink:
Sandro Mathys [18:49]
Any input on that? Otherwise, I'd like to see some votes on whether this draft can be accepted :simple_smile:
Jaume Devesa [18:49]
Nothing to say, @red
Sandro Mathys [18:50]
anyone -1?
Carmela Rubiños [18:50]
(me neither)
Sandro Mathys [18:50]
Well, I count that as accepted then, if there's no disagreement :simple_smile:
Sandro Mathys [18:51]
and I think that's been all on the agenda so let's open the floor - anyone got anything to discuss?
Sandro Mathys [18:52]
if you haven't yet, don't forget to vote for openstack summit tokyo sessions :wink:
Sandro Mathys [18:54]
I tried to get people to tell me if they're talking about OSS MidoNet, but didn't get much replies - so the best link I have is the one from Midokura which includes all OSS MidoNet as well as MEM sessions: http://blog.midokura.com/2015/07/voting-now-open-openstack-summit-tokyo/
Midokura Blog
Voting is now open for the OpenStack Summit in Tokyo! - Midokura Blog
こんにちは Hurry, polls close on Thursday, July 30 at 11:59pm PDT Midokura and our customers and partners huddled together and submitted a few topics into the summit that we think you’ll find interesting. We’ve gone hog wild, our line-up ranges from ecosystem topics like cloud security with Intel, cloud funding with INCJ, NTT Docomo Ventures … Read More ...
July 24th at 18:00
Sandro Mathys [18:54]
I think only a few of them are MEM-specific or target an enterprise audience, anyway :wink:
Sandro Mathys [18:55]
Alright, if no-one else has anything to discuss...we'll adjourn the meeting here so @devvesa can go write that email :wink:
Jaume Devesa [18:55]
haha
Jaume Devesa [18:55]
ok
Toni Segura [18:56]
@red: you didn't ask me, but my presos are OSS specific
Toni Segura [18:56]
maybe it was self-evident, on second thought :stuck_out_tongue:
Sandro Mathys [18:56]
well, Midokura people were repeatedly @ channel'd in the Midokura Slack :wink:
Sandro Mathys [18:57]
Alright, meeting adjourned :simple_smile: Thanks everyone!
Jaume Devesa [18:57]
thanks!
Carmela Rubiños [18:57]
thanks @red
Toni Segura [18:58]
thanks for the meeting!
- When: Tuesday, 04 August 2015 at 16:00 UTC (9 AM PDT, 12 PM EDT, 18:00 CEST), duration: 60 minutes
- Where: #meetings on MidoNet Slack
- Who: Everyone interested in fostering the MidoNet community
- For more details, see Community Council Meetings
Meeting Chair: Sandro Mathys
- Roll Call: who's here?
- Status of Action Items from last meeting.
- Add more agenda items here (or where you see fit)
- End: Open Floor
- When: Tuesday, 25 August 2015 at 09:00 UTC (11:00 CEST, 18:00 JST), duration: 60 minutes
- Where: #meetings on MidoNet Slack
- Who: Everyone interested in fostering the MidoNet community
- For more details, see Community Council Meetings
Meeting Chair: Sandro Mathys
- Roll Call: who's here?
- Status of Action Items from last meeting.
- Add more agenda items here (or where you see fit)
- End: Open Floor
- When: Tuesday, 01 September 2015 at 16:00 UTC (9 AM PDT, 12 PM EDT, 18:00 CEST), duration: 60 minutes
- Where: #meetings on MidoNet Slack
- Who: Everyone interested in fostering the MidoNet community
- For more details, see Community Council Meetings
Meeting Chair: Sandro Mathys
- Roll Call: who's here?
- Status of Action Items from last meeting.
- Add more agenda items here (or where you see fit)
- End: Open Floor