Blade creation ritual returns lost blades

[Xackii]

About The Pull Request

Blade ritual now break first created blade if limit and create new one. If someone was on a tile with a blade, their hand would be cut off

"updated video"
https://youtu.be/fdMhrW2aoto

Why It's Good For The Game

If heretic loses his blades, then due to the limit on creating new blades, he will not be able to make new blades for himself. Now, you can return your blades.

🆑
balance: Heretic now can return his stolen blades by using blade creation ritual again.
/:cl:

[Admiral-Gigaton]

neat, glad that you didnt do this via recall spell. that would have been a nightmare, hard enough as it is, even worse if the heretic recalls their blade to their hand after getting batoned and gets the last lick in to crit the secoff

[Xackii]

neat, glad that you didnt do this via recall spell. that would have been a nightmare, hard enough as it is, even worse if the heretic recalls their blade to their hand after getting batoned and gets the last lick in to crit the secoff

maybe this will be done by the ability of one of the heretic paths in the future

[Rex9001]

I don't really like this, if a heretic loses all of their blades they should've been more careful. As it stands this method is one of few to defang a heretic.

[Xackii]

I don't really like this, if a heretic loses all of their blades they should've been more careful. As it stands this method is one of few to defang a heretic.

this looks like a very broken way, which is more like a flaw. It's like taking away a Ling's arm blade and leaving him with no way to get it back

[Rex9001]

I don't really like this, if a heretic loses all of their blades they should've been more careful. As it stands this method is one of few to defang a heretic.

this looks like a very broken way, which is more like a flaw. It's like taking away a Ling's arm blade and leaving him with no way to get it back

This seems like a very clear and intended flaw of heretic (given the blade limit), I just don't think this is really what heretics need.

[Jacquerel]

I would suggest either making this ritual destroy all existing blades, or combine it with the blade creation ritual (if you're over the cap, destroy the oldest).
Just to avoid people using this to teleport their weapons into perma when they would not usually be able to craft them in there.

[Xackii]

I would suggest either making this ritual destroy all existing blades, or combine it with the blade creation ritual (if you're over the cap, destroy the oldest). Just to avoid people using this to teleport their weapons into perma when they would not usually be able to craft them in there.

sounds better than adding a separate ritual. Although I don’t think that anyone will put a heretic in prison.

[Jacquerel]

sounds better than adding a separate ritual. Although I don’t think that anyone will put a heretic in prison.

Most kinds of Heretic cannot escape from permabrig and it's explicitly expected on one of our servers that people should attempt to detain heretics until they've proven it is impossible (although that's policy not codebase).

[Xackii]

sounds better than adding a separate ritual. Although I don’t think that anyone will put a heretic in prison.

Most kinds of Heretic cannot escape from permabrig and it's explicitly expected on one of our servers that people should attempt to detain heretics until they've proven it is impossible (although that's policy not codebase).

Rast blade can be made in perma, ash, flash (it will hurt a little), void (although unlikely), moon. the knocking path can generally open the doors. It's time to buff Blade and Cosmic(although there may be a chance that plasma will spawn in the perm)

[Sakamoto4ka]

Imagine put x-4 onto the blades with signaller

[Xackii]

Imagine put x-4 onto the blades with signaller

Oh no

[SimplySmiley123]

this looks like a very broken way, which is more like a flaw. It's like taking away a Ling's arm blade and leaving him with no way to get it back

This seems like a very clear and intended flaw of heretic (given the blade limit), I just don't think this is really what heretics need.

The blade limit is to prevent the heretics from filling their inventory with just blades to teleport around with no care in the world at any opportunity they get and to force 'em to think when to use it, and a downtime afterwards to make some blades again

If you loose your blades without breaking them, there's nothing you can do and a mere slip can cause you to loose a blade or two. There is no downtime, you just get fucked over for good.

[ATH1909]

imo the best way to fix this is to just remove the blade limit altogether and tie the restriction to the heretic themself instead of how many blades they can carry. make it still require using a blade in-hand, just not shattering one, with the teleport attempt failing if you've used too many blade teleports too recently (something like the emag charge system?)

but this is lowkey bikeshedding on my end, I think

[jughu]

sounds better than adding a separate ritual. Although I don’t think that anyone will put a heretic in prison.

Most kinds of Heretic cannot escape from permabrig and it's explicitly expected on one of our servers that people should attempt to detain heretics until they've proven it is impossible (although that's policy not codebase).

Blade recall should be a ok ritual it shouldnt be a free ritual it should still require items for the ritual.to get your blades back

[Deadgebert]

the ritual should be at least as tedious as the reroll target ritual. don't lose your blades.

it's very difficult to stop a decent heretic, even with constant pressure from a fully staffed security team. They will blade break at any sign of telebaton or single hit from stun baton. punishing mistakes is extremely important to catching them.

holding any number of blades is also an incentive for security to catch and release.

heretic is an extremely strong antag, I don't think they even need this.

also. will this recall blade + backpack it is being held in like gar'yok does, or just the blade?

[Xackii]

the ritual should be at least as tedious as the reroll target ritual. don't lose your blades.

it's very difficult to stop a decent heretic, even with constant pressure from a fully staffed security team. They will blade break at any sign of telebaton or single hit from stun baton. punishing mistakes is extremely important to catching them.

holding any number of blades is also an incentive for security to catch and release.

heretic is an extremely strong antag, I don't think they even need this.

also. will this recall blade + backpack it is being held in like gar'yok does, or just the blade?

only the blade returns. The heretic is a weak antagonist. While he is so worried about his two blades, the cultists can make themselves 15 swords and 20 teleporters, and if they lose them, they can easily go and make more. Without blades, the heretic turns into a weak version of a cultist + a weak version of a wizard(if, of course, he managed to learn at least some spells). everyone says that the heretic is strong just because he can avoid battle by breaking his blade? This is a very strange claim. Almost all antagonists have a way to escape from the battle, but for a heretic, breaking a blade is a very big problem because you need to spend a lot of time to make a new one (when the secs are chasing you, you won’t have this time), and if the heretic is left without blades and without opportunity to return them, you can completely forget about victory.

[mc-oofert]

Personally I think a better idea would be to make the blade creation ritual destroy the oldest blade if at limit

[Dorsisdwarf]

only the blade returns. The heretic is a weak antagonist. While he is so worried about his two blades, the cultists can make themselves 15 swords and 20 teleporters, and if they lose them, they can easily go and make more. Without blades, the heretic turns into a weak version of a cultist + a weak version of a wizard(if, of course, he managed to learn at least some spells).

(Well, the heretic is a very common multi-spawn low-threat antag who builds strength over the course of a round while the cult are a roundending group antag superthreat who establish fortified hidden bases to do their construction in (And may need to keep supplying new converts) and the Wizard is a primary antag expected to play loud and violent against the entire crew, so it makes sense that their situations are very different)

However, they definitely need some recourse to "oops blades vanished into someones bag forever by mistake, you can no longer play the antag" because antags being able to get accidentally neutered like that is a bit sad and shouldnt really be considered a "balancing" factor, since it seems unintentional. I definitely prefer "ritual destroys lost blades" to "ritual summons your blades" though because the more uncontainable heretics become, the more justified security become to kill 'em on sight.

[MrMelbert]

this looks like a very broken way, which is more like a flaw. It's like taking away a Ling's arm blade and leaving him with no way to get it back

This seems like a very clear and intended flaw of heretic (given the blade limit), I just don't think this is really what heretics need.

Rex is correct this is an intended flaw

[Xackii]

this looks like a very broken way, which is more like a flaw. It's like taking away a Ling's arm blade and leaving him with no way to get it back

This seems like a very clear and intended flaw of heretic (given the blade limit), I just don't think this is really what heretics need.

Rex is correct this is an intended flaw

looks very strange

[Xackii]

Did everything in one blade creation ritual

[github-actions]

This PR has been inactive for long enough to be automatically marked as stale. This means it is at risk of being auto closed in ~ 7 days, please address any outstanding review items and ensure your PR is finished, if these are all true and you are auto-staled anyway, you need to actively ask maintainers if your PR will be merged. Once you have done any of the previous actions then you should request a maintainer remove the stale label on your PR, to reset the stale timer. If you feel no maintainer will respond in that time, you may wish to close this PR youself, while you seek maintainer comment, as you will then be able to reopen the PR yourself

[jlsnow301]

i wouldve losten my mind if i read that again

[Ghommie]

Ok, the feedback message is still a bit quirky and doesn't sound alarming enough for something that'd rip an arm off, and the fact it doesn't take into account whether the person has or doesn't have a left arm, or why it'd always target the left arm, even if wielded on the right hand or, who knows, slotted in a backpack or holstered on the belt or suit carry slot leaves me in a slight state of eldritch bewilderment...

...but I'm willing to merge it soon and see how it plays out, unless someone else says otherwise. The PR has been open for a long while now but I ran into a few inconveniences last week so I couldn't be around.

[Dawnseer]

Oh no