Add climbing presets + fields #1113

zbycz · 2024-02-09T13:51:18Z

Hi,

I'd love to map more climbing routes according the climbing schema on wiki.
See the discussion in:

Presets for climbing features #31

This PR

This PR adds the viable minumum to tag climbing crags and climbing routes. I will add more features as needed in future (eg. bouldering, area, alternative tagging for crag and boulder etc).

I add only presets climbing/crag and climbing/route + climbing/route_bottom for start.

I built this PR with dist command and deployed an iD editor with those presets, so it can be tested thorougly.
eg.

.

Climbing terminology

The taxonomy goes like this - it can be grouped by relations, or just by nearstanding nodes:

Climbing area
- Climbing crag
  - Climbing route
  - Climbing route (start)
  - Climbing route (top) <-- in climbing terminology "top" is end of route
- Climbing boulder
  - Climbing route
  - Climbing route (start)
  - Climbing route (top)

Number of items

preset name	tags	types from wiki	#
Climbing area	climbing = area	node,area,relation	<1k
Climbing crag	climbing = crag	node,relation	3k
↳ or	natural = cliff sport = climbing	node,way	7k
Climbing boulder	climbing = boulder	node,relation	1k
↳ or	natural = stone sport = climbing	node,area	1k
Climbing route	climbing = route	node,way	1k
Climbing route (start)	climbing = route_bottom	node	4k
Climbing route (top)	climbing = route_top	node	<1k

endolith · 2024-02-10T13:07:49Z

Everything should have sport=climbing, no?

zbycz · 2024-02-12T14:44:29Z

Thanks @endolith, very good point. I added the sport=climbing via the addTags property. You can test it in the demo iD editor.

endolith · 2024-02-13T04:00:33Z

The grade options are always the same? No YDS in the US?

It complains about some points being on trails or cliffs:

But not others:

And doesn't show the same interface for them:

zbycz · 2024-02-14T06:44:54Z

Thanks for the feedback, @endolith 🙂

ad grades) unfortunately tagging allows for different marks to be assigned for different grade systems. So we have to add a field for each of them in iD. I added the YDS, but in future it would perhaps make sense to create a custom iD field type (like type=multi), which would have better UX (user is not supposed to fill in all of them).

climbing:grade:uiaa=*
climbing:grade:french=*
climbing:grade:saxon=*
climbing:grade:yds_class=*

ad "It complains about some points being on trails or cliffs") Good point. I added vertex type for the route_bottom preset.

ad "But not others") I didn't create a preset for route_top for start, but it is easy now. I added the preset.

Please check it again in the iD demo, eg Cat in the Hat

github-actions · 2024-02-14T12:42:35Z

🍱 You can preview the tagging presets of this pull request here.

tyrasd

Hi. Thanks for this comprehensive pull request. It looks already quite good. Please find some inline comments, questions and suggestions for some details below.

And as a general remark, the label property of fields and the name of the presets should follow the so called title case spelling. For example: it should be Climbing Route instead of Climbing route. Would you mind adjusting this?

tyrasd · 2024-02-15T18:02:35Z

data/fields/climbing/bolt.json

+            "expansion": "expansion bolt",
+            "glue-in": "glue-in bolt",
+            "ring": "ring bolt"


Where do these values originate from? The wiki only lists abseil and anchor as values for this tag. I cannot even find existing uses for, say the value glue-in on taginfo.

My mistake. Wiki specifies this tag for climbing=bolt, i customized it to fit climbing=route as well.

Removed from this PR, as I don't want to add climbing=bolt yet, maybe in a followup PR.

tyrasd · 2024-02-15T18:16:24Z

data/fields/climbing/bolt.json

@@ -0,0 +1,17 @@
+{
+    "key": "climbing:bolt",


I see that this field is included in the presets for climbing=crag and climbing=route. Unfortunately, the wiki is a bit unclear how this tag should be used exactly, but when looking at the data it seems that it was meant to be used as either a standalone feature (a node with climbing=bolt + this tag – example), or as an attribute on route top nodes (example). If that's the case, it would be better to change this accordingly.

Again the same mistake.

Removed from this PR, as I don't want to add climbing=bolt yet, maybe in a followup PR.

data/fields/climbing/orientation.json

tyrasd · 2024-02-15T18:28:46Z

data/fields/climbing/rock.json

+    "options": [
+        "limestone",
+        "sandstone",
+        "granite",
+        "basalt"
+    ],


the list here seems to be just the incomplete list from the examples in the wiki... many more values are in use, e.g. quartzite, gneiss, porphyry, etc.

Maybe it would be better to leave the options open here for now and let the field use the suggestion for popular values from taginfo instead?

These could remain as a placeholder, though:

Suggested change

"options": [

"limestone",

"sandstone",

"granite",

"basalt"

],

"placeholder": "limestone, sandstone, …",

Well, my aim here was to make all the options translatable. I think this is important, because us non-native speakers usually know the rock types only in our language.

I removed options and added proper strings.options according to taginfo. Is it ok? Can we somehow suggest that people can add other options as well?

tyrasd · 2024-02-15T18:36:21Z

data/presets/climbing/crag.json

+        "name"
+    ],
+    "moreFields": [
+        "climbing/length",


Does it really make sense to specify the length of a climbing crag? Is it the sum of the routes on it? What practical use would such a number have?

The length in climbing terminology means how long is the route from bottom to top (longer climbs are usually more fun), and this also implies needed rope length.

Often the crag has almost all routes with the same lenght, but usually there are few shorter routes, or perhaps one longer. So this value on the crag works as a default for all the routes, but each route can overwrite it.

Of course, if each route is different length, the it probably wouldn't make sense to tag it on crag as well.

data/fields/climbing/summit_log.json

tyrasd · 2024-02-15T18:47:49Z

data/presets/climbing/route.json

+        "climbing/grade/uiaa",
+        "climbing/grade/french",
+        "climbing/grade/saxon",
+        "climbing/grade/yds_class"


maybe put these into moreFields for now to avoid the confusion with multiple grading fields been shown at the same time (at least until iD has better support for such cases where one property is usually sufficient).

maybe instead, the fields for climbing:bolted and/or climbing:rock could be included "up here", as they seem to be relatively popular (around 10% of objects use them at the moment).

Thanks, done.

tyrasd · 2024-02-15T18:57:09Z

data/presets/climbing/route_bottom.json

+        "vertex"
+    ],
+    "fields": [
+        "{climbing/route}"


I think it does not make sense to just copy-paste the fields from the climbing route preset here. There are quite a few of them which do not make sense (e.g. what is the length of the bottom of a climbing route?), and/or which would just duplicate the property of the respective climbing route object (e.g. the rock type of the route, etc.).

Please specify a list of tag which make sense to be used for these features. 🙇 For example, ele seems to be a reasonably popular one (example).

I think the issue here is that climbing=route_bottom is very often used as a synonym for "here is the route", and in that case it technically suits as climbing=route.

Eg. there are 4822 nodes with this tag, and 4575 have name (overpass) which may imply this case.

The wiki even specifies this scenario:

Climbing routes can be mapped with a single node marking the bottom of the route, tagged as climbing=route_bottom, or two nodes tagged with climbing=route_bottom and climbing=route_top connected by a way tagged as climbing=route.

Do you think we can leave the "route" fields on the "route_bottoms" then?

tyrasd · 2024-02-15T18:59:32Z

data/presets/climbing/route_bottom.json

+        "sport": "climbing",
+        "climbing": "route_bottom"
+    },
+    "name": "Climbing route (start)"


I would omit the parentheses here (and similarly also on the route_top preset):

Suggested change

"name": "Climbing route (start)"

"name": "Climbing Route Start"

tyrasd · 2024-02-15T18:59:46Z

data/presets/climbing/route_top.json

+        "{climbing/route}"
+    ],
+    "moreFields": [
+        "{climbing/route}"


see above :)

Co-authored-by: Martin Raifer <martin@raifer.tech>

zbycz · 2024-03-29T09:04:11Z

@tyrasd Thank you very much for such a good review. Also I am glad I learned how to correctly propose fields, eg. that I should search taginfo first 🙂

Changes deployed to my id instance, eg:

crag relation: https://osm.zby.cz/id-climbing/#id=r17130664
crag relation: https://osm.zby.cz/id-climbing/#id=r14497828
crag line: https://osm.zby.cz/id-climbing/#id=w745451490
crag area: https://osm.zby.cz/id-climbing/#id=w743598029
route_bottom without name: https://osm.zby.cz/id-climbing/#id=n2351544812
route_bottom+route both with names: https://osm.zby.cz/id-climbing/#id=n4901371127 (Cat in a Hat)

While editing moreFields I also got an idea how to make them more usable: openstreetmap/iD#10181

add climbing preset + fields

c6e1f01

zbycz mentioned this pull request Feb 9, 2024

Presets for climbing features #31

Open

add addTags with sport=climbing

a6b5ed9

zbycz mentioned this pull request Feb 12, 2024

tagging: add climbing presets zbycz/osmapp#208

Merged

zbycz added 3 commits February 14, 2024 07:14

add yds_class

301beb4

add vertex to route_bottom

71835c2

add route_top

076e09d

tyrasd added new-preset new-field labels Feb 14, 2024

tyrasd requested changes Feb 15, 2024

View reviewed changes

zbycz and others added 7 commits March 29, 2024 07:56

remove options from climbing/orientation

1cd8df8

Co-authored-by: Martin Raifer <martin@raifer.tech>

crag type +line +area

7a147ce

Co-authored-by: Martin Raifer <martin@raifer.tech>

add summit log alias

08f1597

Co-authored-by: Martin Raifer <martin@raifer.tech>

adjust title case spelling + remove brackets

4e87f0c

remove climbing/bolt for now

8cf49ba

translatable Rock Type

d90bdad

move grades to moreFields

f141bc0

Provide feedback

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Add climbing presets + fields #1113

Add climbing presets + fields #1113

zbycz commented Feb 9, 2024 •

edited

endolith commented Feb 10, 2024

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zbycz commented Mar 29, 2024

	"name": "Climbing route (start)"
	"name": "Climbing Route Start"

Add climbing presets + fields #1113

Are you sure you want to change the base?

Add climbing presets + fields #1113

Conversation

zbycz commented Feb 9, 2024 • edited

This PR

Climbing terminology

Number of items

endolith commented Feb 10, 2024

zbycz commented Feb 12, 2024

endolith commented Feb 13, 2024

zbycz commented Feb 14, 2024

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zbycz commented Mar 29, 2024

zbycz commented Feb 9, 2024 •

edited

tyrasd Feb 15, 2024 •

edited