2021 Refresh: USB not detected in glovebox #564
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This is just a guess, but could it be that the USB port is normally unpowered, and turning on Sentry mode is what causes it to be powered? |
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No it is always powered and also the PI Zero shows led activity... |
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I also could not my zero to get recognized in my 2021 m3 with usb in glovebox. Try to use another usb cable. I have 2 cables and both works when connected to my computer but for some reason only one works in the Tesla. Both shows the same led activity when connected to the Tesla. |
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Yes but I noticed that the Raspberry is working correctly and recording everything..... |
Yes, I noticed that exact alert message as well. I have a malfunctioning camera so the warning triangle is always on for me. |
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If it helps, 2021 glovebox USB is a 3.0. |
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@taro777 Re: your comment that "only one [cable] works in the Tesla", are you saying it's working for you after switching to another cable? The only time I've seen similar issues was when I used a Pi4 with an attached NVME drive that was drawing too much power for the USB port. The Pi would boot, but the car refused to see it as a drive and complained about "USB malfunction". I got it to work by using a power/data splitter and providing power separately. |
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@marcone yes, np. I was just trying to help crispass since I had a similar issue and I found a way around it |
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With the latest 2020.48.12.1 the Tesla no longer recognizes the rasperry. Saw you closed a similar as duplicate. My Tesla is in service now so I can’t give more than that atm, just a heads up something happend in the last update. |
I have 2020.48.12.1 and teslausb still works for me. |
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I tried again with 2020.48.12.1. Tesla give the not recognized error and the small size (32gb) error but it seems to record. |
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Can confirm this is happening on my 2021 M3. I am currently on 2020.48.26 firmware, and using a Pi Zero W, with a 128GB Sandisk Ultra Plus SDXC card. The files record onto the Pi fine, and it uploads to my fileserver via SMB when WiFi is in range just fine. I am wondering if it has to do with the USB device class / parameters that are being presented to the MCU when plugged in. I haven't tried tweaking any of this, but I haven't looked much in the way of how the Pi presents itself as a USB mass storage device to the car. |
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@kolasin2 can you clarify the actual, exact, symptoms and messages? It seems odd for the car to say that "USB is not detected", but then record to USB anyway. So is the only symptom that the car shows that message, but everything else works normally? |
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@marcone take a look at these screenshots. You can see that the car UI is giving the "UI_a111" error. However, if I go to look at the footage, all is there on the in-car clip viewer. I also see the clips synchronizing to my fileserver over SMB. |
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Same behavior on my M3 also using new faster SD. |
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I suspect the new glovebox USB port isn't actively powered (guessing it comes directly out of the MCU without going through an active hub like the two in the center console). The standard USB 5V/500mA supply is adequate for a passive USB stick, but not enough for a Pi (especially when loaded). Until someone can do a teardown/wire trace on their 2021 Model 3, we won't know for sure. In the meantime, try adding an active powered USB line to the power-only port of the Pi; keep the data-line plugged into he glovebox USB port. |
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Ok I've done some testing, and I believe I have determined what the issue is. tl;dr: The Pi Zero W is a USB2 device, and the car assumes that when it sees a USB2 device plugged into the glovebox, it is plugged into one of the center console USB-C ports. This is a bug on Tesla's MCU software, and they need to be smarter about USB device detection. The error message is misleading. The MCU thinks the device is plugged into one of the other USB-C ports in the car when the device plugged into the glovebox USB port is a USB2 device. This doesn't stop the car from writing to the device, as it operates normally, which is why I am seeing the car write it's dashcam files to the Pi. Here is what I did:
I do have a Pi4 sitting around I could attempt this with, since it has both USB2 and USB3 ports, and would be an easy confirmation of this behavior. So it appears that this error is specific to USB2 devices plugged into the glove box USB port on the Tesla Model 3 2021 refresh, and not a power issue with port and the Pi. |
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As an update to my last comment, I put a USB3 hub in between the glovebox port and the Pi Zero W. No change in behavior, with the UI_a111 error still showing. |
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Thanks for the tests and updates. I missed the part where TeslaUSB still worked as intended, despite the error message. Knowing that now, it's starting to look more like the issue is on Tesla's sw side. |
The Pi4 can only do USB gadget emulation on the USB-C port, which is USB2. |
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When connecting PI zero to my mac with USB I noticed that the USB drive connect, disconnect and then reconnect again. |
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@chrispazz I noticed that too, but it is unrelated. I put in a pull request (#593) to fix that. That behavior is due to some stuff in the archiveloop happening before networking is settled, because systemd does a parallel boot and brings up the teslausb service prior to WiFi being being fully up. |
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Hi there. I posted this in the Discord server a few nights ago but realized it should really get posted here too...
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Got the same problem. Mine don't save the sentry events. It only saves the 10 last min after i enter the car. From the outside I see the zero that is blinking 2 blinks pr sec. It also saves the entire trip home (50 min drive). |
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It'a a bug in the Tesla software. It's the same problem with recording sentry clips as when I use the official usb from Tesla. Have to wait for a bug fix from Tesla. |
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A lot of great information here. Thanks for all the testing |
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Mine has still the warning that the usb is not plugged in, but it is now recording in sentry mode and while driving. |
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Mine is as well |
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Agreed, although getting the error on my M3LR with the TeslaUSB it appears to record OK, I've swapped back to the Tesla supplied USB for the moment as I have a previously logged issue with having Sentry mode alerts but no recordings, which I'm booked in for a Service Appointment so don't want to confuse the situation. If I get the opportunity when speaking with one of their engineers I see if they can shed any light on this issue. |
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Thanks @marcone. Confirming it was a quick update to my existing config. And plays smaller, compressed MP3 music format without issue. I'll try FLAC lossless next and, if successful, I'll upgrade to a 256 GB high endurance card as you've indicated. Was surprised how quickly it sync'd 130 MP3 files from the music_share on my network to the teslausb music volume. Perhaps since they were a download vs. upload. |
Avoiding wasted time going in circles actually. This issue is so old and long it's quite easy to lose focus. It shouldn't be this hard, it's most likely the Tesla 2021 electronics making things difficult/impossible. We need a USB debugger, which I think that device I bought does partially too. However even plugging that power meter in is enough to trip the Tesla error message even with the original Tesla USB drive. We might all be wasting our time if it turns out an adapter cable (correcting the impedance or other wizardry) is needed. So this RockPi USB3 OTG is interesting, but likely to fail too as any USB3 drive should work already with a hub or adapter in the glovebox. If the RockPi/USB3 fails then we know it's best to give up until an electronics expert is available, perhaps could do a tear down of the USB hub in the centre console and glove box to see/measure the questionable resistance values. |
Nowhere did I find information that a USB flash drive with a 2.0 port worked properly in TM3 2021. However, I found many cases of correct operation of a USB memory with a 3.0 port. On this basis, I believe that we should move in this direction. |
Context was wasting time with the suggestion of available power being an issue again. That's proven NOT to be an issue with evidence. Unless it's a timing thing but that's really exhaustive to track down. Power removal issues are solved with a battery/UPS HAT as suggested. That may be a requirement to get the RockPi working based off last information. I'll test a selection of USB2 and USB3 drives, cables, adapters and hubs then post results to confirm or close this line of investigation... |
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Test results.... Both USB2 drives and USB3 drives with certain adapters don't work, USB3 hubs do work even a complex hub with Ethernet. It was a misunderstanding that "hubs or adapters" don't work, it's just "USB2 (including drives, cables and hubs) and some USB3 adapters" don't work then. Tesla USB3 drive in USB3 angle adapter (FAIL): Tesla USB3 drive in USB3 hub (PASS): Tesla USB3 drive in USB2 extension cable (FAIL): Tesla USB3 drive in USB2 hub (FAIL): USB2 drive (FAIL): USB2 drive in USB3 hub (FAIL): So Tesla is not backwards compatible since 2021 refresh, for whatever reason. Pure USB3 sticks and hubs work, but beware of "USB3" extensions and adapter cables, perhaps they are not following the spec or do and trigger an issue with the Tesla. We also heard that it affects the new AMD MCU: Sounds like the end unless TeslaUSB migrates to a new hardware platform! 🤯 It should work as USB3 is supposed to be backwards compatible and the required speeds are low enough. It would be nice to hear some AMD Ryzen based Model Y and 3 owners complete the picture by confirming the issue remains. I'm going to source some new hardware then and try to help here. |
Have you looked inside the USB3 right angle adapter? Maybe there aren't all the cables inside and it's really USB2. You came to the same conclusions as I did some time ago. For which I was almost publicly lynched. But this is unfortunately true. To sum up. If we change the hardware to one that has a USB3 port, there is a chance that the USB gadget will work properly. Equipment with a USB2 port will definitely not work properly. |
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Yeah sorry I presumed we did this due diligence on USB standards already. I think it's technically bad of Tesla as I heard these electrical standards are not a choice. The online manual even reports it should work:
I wonder if this problem has even been reported. I guess the service technicians will just say "put the original drive in" and close the call. It's easy to dismiss but technically valid especially considering the documentation. |
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The instruction manual is a theory of practice, it does not always have to work. Also, the instruction is not consistent elsewhere it says: "Use USB 3.0 compliant cables to connect a device to a USB port. Using non-compliant cables can result in slower charging, potential connection problems or degraded performance." |
Hi @marcone confirming after testing, my current 128 GB high endurance SD card is able to effectively play FLAC lossless audio files while recording camera footages. Haven't encountered any issues. Will be upgrading to a 256 GB card so I can keep a 64G music partition (or larger) and my existing 30G camera volume. |
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@miles267 - Best open a separate issue for music configuration if not documented in the configuration file, setup guide or search on other issues/questions already. We're trying to fix the 2021 refresh compatibility here. |
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So I tore down my USB3 angle adapter to see if it shines any light on why this is the only USB3 test case which does not work in the glovebox...
Not the best engineering there. I think we can discount this as junk.
I does have 9 wires though. |
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Seeing the build quality of this adapter, it may not have worked properly. Twisting these wires together can serve as an IQ charger for a smartphone 😉 |
Storage benchmarkRaspberry Pi Zero 2 W [OpenWrt, Kernel 5.10.88, Sandisk Extreme Pro 128GB] Writing and reading with buffer enabled (standard kernel) Direct write to read (modified module - O_SYNC) |
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Guys I just ordered and tested the neat USB extension for the glovebox, recently available from the usual Chicom sources. Sadly it doesn't help us fix the problem. But does provide interesting insight, that a device CAN exist BETWEEN the USB port of the 2021 refresh and another device without causing an alert. That is exactly, a normal USB3 storage stick will NOT report an error when plugged into this device, but DOES with other devices even simple angle adapters. Sadly TeslaUSB reports the same error when plugged into the USB2 port of the device, or doesn't appear at all when plugged into the USB3 port of this device.
Test cases:
So save your money unless you just want more devices in the glovebox. |
Tesla doesn't have any fancy detection routines. It assumes that if the device is USB2, it is definitely not in the clipboard. By the way. NanoPi NEO3 with OpenWRT doesn't generate an error. What to expect right from the start. To sum up. For me, this topic is over. The Raspberry Pi Zero W is completely useless as it is too slow and some recordings are not saved. The Raspberry Pi Zero 2 W provides sufficient performance but causes a bug due to the USB interface. I'm disappearing from here. Tony, you turned out to be the only competent person in this discussion. Best regards 🙂 |
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Model 3 AMD Ryzen here - fail |
We heard this so many times before, please test for a long period before announcing a "fix" as it causes confusion and wasted time. Read the last comments above, they still stand, it seems even with the new Ryzen chipset. So it's game over for RasPi, TeslaUSB and new Tesla models since 2021. Other hardware can successfully use and extend the glovebox USB port, simple hubs and adapters don't even work with the original USB stick. The RasPi is not even designed/supported to do this kind of emulation especially not as a USB3 drive which is required. Special hardware is necessary: The chipset used here and some reverse engineering of what kind of components allow this hub to work and in addition preserve the DashCam port without errors would reveal the special hardware requirements of the Tesla glovebox. Perhaps somebody will find a hardware hack to force the correct USB ID via resistor/shorted plug or another SBC with a similar USB chipset and driver to enable it. Either way, it still appears to be primarily a hardware issue and most Tesla owners won't want to mess about with soldering-up plugs to stick into their nice new cars. If indeed after a longer period of testing the error has gone and you never lose footage then do come back and we can all invest some time to re-test. I rebooted so many times whilst testing this and many firmware updates occurred with no improvement, to the contrary we have more errors now than last year. A Tesla firmware update as a fix is a long shot. Normal use cases include that the Pi will be removed, re-inserted and reboot itself for updates, etc... Even if rebooting fixed it temporarily, it would not be plausible as a "fix" if it had to be repeated to ensure recordings were taken. |
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I am intrigued by this note on the product page you linked to:
Something may have been lost in translation there, but they seem to be saying that a flaky connection while plugging in might require rebooting the center console to get things working again. |
No it doesn't say anything about needing a reboot or flaky connection. The more likely takeaway is that there is actually some "protection mechanism" and they wrote firmware to work around it. The strange wording means simply that only the first port of the hub supports dashcam, nothing to do with connectivity issues. On the positive side, it could mean it's possible Tesla could release an update to allow hubs if there was no significant physical/reliability issue in the car they are "protecting". That could help TeslaUsb, though the lack of true hardware USB3 drive emulation support on the RasPi remains as a permanent limitation (is it even worth it anymore with this SBC? RasPi 5 or another maybe better). The rumoured update to support BT game controllers touches this area of firmware significantly. If/when that is released it would be worth investing time/risk to test again. |
It literally says "you may need to reboot your center control screen and try it again"
Their product description does say that only one of the ports is for dashcam, but the part that stood out to me was in the part I highlighted, specifically "If you can not insert the hub into the bottom of usb port at one time".
Sorry, I don't follow. What do Bluetooth game controllers have to do with the USB port? |
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I've been using this hub for 2 months already with no errors or failed recordings. I never had an issue inserting the device, I use Sentry and DashCam all the time, never had to reboot or saw any errors. Also works across a firmware update and multiple swaps of USB sticks (workaround to not having TeslaUsb) also without additional reboot or error. It just works! But it is a tight fit against the soft covering of the glove box. That's most likely the reason for the extra badly translated wording you mention. Nothing to see here except proof TeslaUsb has little chance without new hardware. That's the point! BT support, as said, requires Tesla to do significant work on their Linux OS driver/firmware stack in the area of USB/HID. Just a hope that when they turn their attention to this it could include an upgrade/removal of the "protection" (limitation) of the glovebox. A Tesla firmware update is the only hope you have for TeslaUsb to magically start working again if you don't focus on new hardware. That was the other point. There is another useful hint you picked up on there about the hardware issue. It sounds like a sequence of connection before dropping from USB 3 to 2 support. But as said after multiple swaps this is not an issue of normal use for this device and it's most likely to do with users having difficulty squashing it in the first time. It also doesn't change the fact that RasPi does not officially support device emulation last time I checked. According to the documentation I read the current solution remains a "hack" leftover in a Linux driver. This fails to work on new hardware regardless of who's fault it is. The new hub hardware works flawlessly in my experience, over months. People desperate to use TeslaUsb should be really careful about assuming it works if you ignore the error. My experience, also of many months in that condition last year, was it would randomly skip or miss recordings. Think about it... that could be exactly when you need evidence to prove your innocence in a traffic offence or to find a criminal who damaged your car!!! That's a very bad idea, no way acceptable as a workaround. This risk needs to be understood. The status remains, that currently and for the foreseeable future, there is no viable solution available to provide remote dashcam access and management, as enjoyed by some TeslaUsb users (with older cars). |
That seems like pure speculation. The car runs Linux, and Linux already supports Bluetooth game controllers. Furthermore, Bluetooth has nothing to do with USB.
I don't know what documentation you read, but that's nonsense. The USB gadget driver has been part of Linux for almost 20 years, is still under active development, and supports multiple gadget types including mass storage. |
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@CodeChief the way you post things come across as very condescending, and it also seems like you just really want this project to fail for some reason. You also seem to post things as of they're fact, when they are just total nonsense. Yes, we know things aren't in a great state right now but that doesn't mean we should all just pack our things up and go home. If you want to give up on this project, go ahead. I don't get why you continue posting here though |
Nonsense only comes from people who don't read the history or prefer to fight over words instead of taking any of the content into account. No you're completely wrong in that summary, clearly don't know how much I contributed and will continue to. If you read my previous posts you would know I'm investing a lot of time to get a fix. But a few of the people making a more professional balanced evaluation already realized its time to get TeslaUsb working on new hardware. Not to throw it in the bin. The current RasPi models appear to be the problem. The long shot is a Tesla firmware update. See... I have to repeat again! Read the history before you comment and judge people! Don't be surprised at short answers if you don't! |
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Had my Tesla model 3 2021 facelift in for a service this week. This is what they wrote in my invoice. Mine has been working since day 1. I had to change the sd-card at one point as it was faulty. |
Finally some new evidence! Thanks for sharing. There are multiple takeaways in this:
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so looks like teslausb doesn't work any longer on a 2023 model Y due to the new ryzen MCU? i'm also unable for the tesla to detect the rapsberry pi as a USB. |
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Same problem here in my new model Y. You can not use the glovebox usb3 in combination with pi zero. I just installed it cannot tell yet what effect it has. Let me know what your thoughts are. |
and others
Hello, in new 2021 M3 with USB in glovebox and firmware 2020.45.25, there is always an alert that USB is not detected and that Sentry mode will use more power.
Looking in the teslausb storage it seems to store regularly every sentry detected despite the error message present in notifications.
Anyone with the same behaviour as mine?
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