Improve toolbar

[ueen]

I propose to remove the refresh buttons, they are unnecessary, confusing and possibly prevent discovery of pull to refresh. If they are essential for which it yet have to hear an argument, let us at least hide them in the menu.
I have to great suggestions:

• for the home toolbar i added a link to the add-podcast-screen because this it is not yet accessible from home but is needed rather frequently, for adding new podcasts or looking at trends.
• Also i felt recently played history was missing in the queue toolbar - it just naturally goes together: i add them to queue, then listen and then they are moved to recently played.

Happy new years everybody :)

[ByteHamster]

I'm not really convinced by the new menu items.

• An "add" button on the home page feels like it adds a section to the home page, not a subscription. In my opinion, the "add" button fits better on the "subscriptions" page (where we already have it).
• The history button somehow breaks the conceptual hierarchy of the screens. To me, the history is a top-level screen, not a sub-screen of the queue.

I would not completely remove the refresh buttons. For now, I would move them to the overflow menu. When removing it from the toolbar, we need a new indicator for the feed refresh. So instead of switching the refresh button to a progress bar, the pull-down spinner should be shown/hidden during refresh.

[ByteHamster]

Keunes just told me that keeping the button in the overflow menu is even what Google recommends for accessibility: https://developer.android.com/develop/ui/views/touch-and-input/swipe/add-swipe-interface#AddRefreshAction

[ueen]

Not following your conceptualization, toolbarbuttons have different functions/actions and I see them as links to related pages not subscreens, I'm also not proposing to remove other ways to reach the screens, like sidebar or subscriptions, multiple ways lead to Rome. Having the add screen easily accessible from home is useful, the toolbar is a good place in my opinion and it's easy to discover what it does :) Same for history, it is related to queue, because the episodes were there before and there is still toolbar space so why not put it to use? I would also encourage always visible locking because it makes sense to easily toggle, didn't we used to have that? Refresh to overflow is something I could live with...

[keunes]

"add" button fits better on the "subscriptions" page (where we already have it).

I agree. Conceptually it doesn't feel logic to have the Add button in the toolbar of home. We need to generally find better UX to add podcasts. So I would not add an icon in the app bar.

The history button somehow breaks the conceptual hierarchy of the screens. To me, the history is a top-level screen, not a sub-screen of the queue.

For me, the playback history doesn't make sense as one of the main/top-level screens. Conceptually I feel it should be under the full Player screen or the Queue screen.

I agree that it can be in both places as icon, though I think it's a bit overkill. As not everyone uses the Queue, it would be better placed in the Player screen. However, as the player screen app bar is already quite full, I would add the icon in the Queue screen and an item in the overflow menu of the player screen.

visible locking because it makes sense to easily toggle, didn't we used to have that

You mean queue locking? We did use to have that indeed, but I think it was removed because many users got confused after they locked the queue.

[ueen]

Add (home)
Can you explain the concept to me thats preventing the add link in home toolbar? bc i dont get it, i need an easy way, possibly with one click from home to get to the add screen (which works nicely for adding podcasts in my view or what do you mean by better UX @keunes?).
As this is a universal and frequent need in my view and the toolbar has space to offer, linking to add screen makes a lot of sense to me.
Conceptually I think of home more like a website landing/home page and the toolbar as the menu that links to other most used features or pages/screens. Also i think we should fully adopt the goal of making home to useful (for different use preferences) that it can be the only screen or reach every other screen with one tap for the day to day use and i believe this to be achievable - in fact i think we are already almost there, just missing a link to the add screen :)

Locking (queue)
For queue locking i think there is now also the dialog explaining the feature so that should prevent the confusion, i thinkl its important to keep in mind the DAU but also enableling great UI/UX and powerusage :)

Player toolbar
the player toolbar is also feels weird rigth now: i would move the skip silence to the overflow, bc i feel like thats someting you either activate or dont, but dont switch to often, i would alwaysDisplay the share button because thats someting i do more often and that would also promote AP (with new deeplink as default and share landing website).

or yet another idea: merge audio controls (skip silence) into the speedcontrol dialog, i know they are different but they feel related and maybe it be nice to have a single dialog to control the playback prefeences.

[ByteHamster]

or reach every other screen with one tap

Bottom navigation will do that as well, in a much more "standard" way because it keeps the screens separated instead of trying to squash everything into one screen.

I would also encourage always visible locking

Given that users are still confused by it, even with the message, I rather want to remove the feature. Some long-time users seem to lock the queue mainly out of habit, not really because they need it. Moving episodes accidentally is no longer really a problem because dragging was reworked significantly since locking was added. So it adds complexity and user support overhead without really helping too much.

or yet another idea: merge audio controls (skip silence) into the speedcontrol dialog

There is already an open PR for that

[ueen]

Queue
removing unnecessary stuff from toolbar, perfect! I removed the locking button :)

Bottom navigation

Bottom navigation will do that as well, in a much more "standard" way because it keeps the screens separated instead of trying to squash everything into one screen.

Well "standard" reads not thought through to me - we know about user flow und UX and should integrate that knowledge.
If everything is accessible from home there is no need for BottomNavigation. its occupying space and is worsening the UX in comparison to the sidedrawer, because it is so limited, taking 4-5 items max.

So in the end we loose content space for less useful navigation and worse UX just bc its "standard"?

Too Short, Read More: I dont want to use seperate screens, i only want to use home for the day to day. I know that there are different use cases, but look at it this way: in the default configuration the home screen already serves as a vertical navigation: it provides signposts to all relevant screens, adding a Bottom Navigation to that is redundant. It would only make sense if someone configured something other than home as the default page, something like episodes, which makes only sense as long as the customizability of home is limited. So what i'm arguing for: make home more useful and adaptable, so to make the most of it. And then i firmly believe the need for changing the default page from home dissipates as well with the desire for a bottomnavigation :)

[ByteHamster]

removing unnecessary stuff from toolbar, perfect! I removed the locking button :)

This should be an independent PR. One PR for each feature/change.

If everything is accessible from home

That is not the goal. Not everyone wants/uses the home screen.

[ueen]

That is not the goal. Not everyone wants/uses the home screen.

It is A goal because it is a valid and extremly powerful use-case. So i'm not saying force home on everyone, but make the most of it and i do believe that will lead to >90% of the userbase prefering home eventually.

We do have so make some choices, also choices about what choices to offer - theres no way around this.
Having a great, easy to learn, use and adapable default (home) is a great choices in my eyes.
Forcing a less useful BottomNavigation out of conformity (smth like "spotify is doing it") is a worse choice IMHO.

[keunes]

Add (home)

Can you explain the concept to me thats preventing the add link in home toolbar?

• The Home page is the place where you consume content. Adding (following) new content sources is done through a dedicated screen (Subscriptions). That's how we do it now, and how Google News does as well: Home vs Following
• The app bar contains actions that are relevant for that screen: e.g. favourites toggle on Episodes screen, search icon on podcast screen filtered for that podcast, sleep timer on player screen, history on queue screen. Adding a new content source is not relevant to the screen about consumption. (One exception: Show Chromecast icon on all screens #6502)

Conceptually I think of home more like a website landing/home page and the toolbar as the menu that links to other most used features or pages/screens

There's two flavours: A homepage like that of Facebook or Mastodon, where you also 'create' content. And that of a newspaper, where you consume content. AntennaPod clearly is not the first (you don't publish episodes).

need an easy way, possibly with one click from home to get to the add screen

Let's be honest: you already have that ;) It's just two extra taps away ('Subscriptions »' and an additional 'back' tap when done).

which works nicely for adding podcasts in my view or what do you mean by better UX?

There are requests about better discovery and podcast search functionality (forum thread, following #4747). I regularly see comments about this in reviews.

What I meant here, though, is the 'onboarding' experience: upon first install, the experience is not very pretty, visually. But that's not really relevant to this issue -sorry for adding noise.

Player toolbar

• alwaysDisplay share button: agreed. But let's focus this PR on the Refresh buttons (on all screens). Can you create a separate one for the share button on the player screen @ueen?
• move Skip silence button: agreed - covered in Move 'skip silence' checkbox to playback speed dialog #6834

Bottom navigation vs all-encompasing Home screen

I understand the discussion going on, but this is not something for a PR. Please refer to the forum: https://forum.antennapod.org/t/brainstorming-bottom-navigation-for-bigger-screens/774/18

make home more useful and adaptable

See also #6229 & #6068.

If everything is accessible from home
...
It is A goal because it is a valid and extremly powerful use-case
...
We do have so make some choices, also choices about what choices to offer - theres no way around this.
Having a great, easy to learn, use and adapable default (home) is a great choices in my eyes

I think you're confusing the 'goal' and the 'means':

• Goal: make Home the best default experience for >90% of the userbase
  • Secondary goal: offering features & providing access to areas/screens that >90% of the userbase will use every time (or at least 75% of the time) they open the app (and I would add: 'to consume content').
• Means:
  • Your interpretation: Have the 'Add podcast' button on the home screen/in the home app bar. Because you use it super often.
  • My interpretation: Provide quick access to the 'Subscriptions' screen from where users can see all the podcasts they're following/subscribed to, from which they can 'Add podcast'. Because this action is not something that's used super often.
  • Who is right we cannot know for sure, as we don't have metrics. Given this knowledge gap combined with the conceptual purpose of Home (consumption - see above), I'm against adding more UI elements not strictly related to this purpose.

[ueen]

Let's be honest: you already have that ;) It's just two extra taps away ('Subscriptions »' and an additional 'back' tap when done).

Two taps are one too many still, also think about accesibility users ;)

There are requests about better discovery and podcast search functionality (forum thread, following #4747). I regularly see comments about this in reviews.

I'm rather happy with the discovery screen, i just want to get there more easily.

What I meant here, though, is the 'onboarding' experience: upon first install, the experience is not very pretty, visually. But that's not really relevant to this issue -sorry for adding noise.

I agree, i feel like its not nice to have to go through sidebar, my sugesstion for onboarding would be to use point that nice arrow at the toolbar + to teach new users to go to deicovery and add podcasts, this way there will be no confusion as to what the plus means and its a nice UX and we save taps (less is always more).

I think you're confusing the 'goal' and the 'means':

appreciate your clarifications on your conceptualization, which i think is too narrowminded: home can be many things (ist customizable and soon hopefully even more so). But you're right in the end it comes down to things we dont know and maybe can not know without trying - so here i stand and say: lets try :)

[keunes]

Two taps are one too many still

For a feature that's used every day yes. But I contest that it is.

also think about accesibility users

If you want to improve accessibility for users, have a look at the Area: Accessibility label - there are still a few open ones. Let's not 'tokenise' users relying on accessibility features for our own arguments.

But you're right in the end it comes down to things we dont know and maybe can not know without trying - so here i stand and say: lets try

I don't think my conceptual view on the Home is narrow minded (mind you: I conceptualised it in the first place), and I stand by earlier comments.

Anyway, to streamline the project @ByteHamster and I prefer to have:

• Discussions on functionality in the Forum
• Concrete/boiled down solution descriptions in Issues
• Technical/Implementation discussions in PRs

So I'll stop here because it's the wrong place anyway to have this discussion. It would be helpful for us if you can:

• focus this PR on removing all Refresh buttons from all app bars, as we already agreed on this change & can be merged relatively fast
• create a separate PR for the Share button on the Player screen
• start a forum thread about adding the 'Add podcast' button on the Home screen

Thanks a lot in advance!

[ueen]

For a feature that's used every day yes. But I contest that it is.

No, not daily, about 1-3 times a week in my experience. Thats more than I use the search.

Let's not 'tokenise' users relying on accessibility features for our own arguments.

No its a true statement, this will improve accessibility, thats not why i wont it, buts an added benefit ;)

I don't think my conceptual view on the Home is narrow minded (mind you: I conceptualised it in the first place)

I telling you that my impression is that it is. You said home is this and i sad its not only this or don't have to be only like this.
What it comes down to is this: there is space available in home toolbar and i suggested putting it to good use and explained why linking to discovery screen would be great (also keeping in mind other proposed changes to home) :)

start a forum thread

I'm repeating myself, but thats what i already did, you started discussing in this PR :(
https://forum.antennapod.org/t/further-home-screen-improvements/2479/9

[antennapod-bot]

This pull request has been mentioned on AntennaPod Forum. There might be relevant details there:

https://forum.antennapod.org/t/the-case-against-bottomnavigation/4061/1

[antennapod-bot]

This pull request has been mentioned on AntennaPod Forum. There might be relevant details there:

https://forum.antennapod.org/t/changed-refresh/4325/13