All conversations gone #5128
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Signal devs do not want you to own your own data and have gone to lengths to prevent you from backing up your own data. It is unfathomable why, but it is the situation we have live with. Some of use have pledged money to allow us to backup our data, but there are no takers unfortunately. |
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What a pitty. Can somebody explain why the conversations are not backed up in an iphone backup? |
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A developer "answered" here:
Which does not make sense, but it is the answer we got. |
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I also cannot understand this. Especially, because the Android version does offer backup. |
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Is there anyway to help get this feature developed? |
apparently not, even though they have done so for Android: https://support.signal.org/hc/en-us/articles/360007059752-Backup-and-Restore-Messages#android_enable Why they won't port the Android backup/restore mechanism from Android to iOS (since iOS now has file storage capabilities) is a slap in the face. Telegram seems to be the only sensible solution, even though it is not by default as secure as Signal. |
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Is this still relevant? If so, what is blocking it? Is there anything you can do to help move it forward? This issue has been automatically marked as stale because it has not had recent activity. It will be closed if no further activity occurs. |
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Yes, it's still very relevant :) |
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Is this still relevant? If so, what is blocking it? Is there anything you can do to help move it forward? This issue has been automatically marked as stale because it has not had recent activity. It will be closed if no further activity occurs. |
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Yes, still relevant |
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Is this still relevant? If so, what is blocking it? Is there anything you can do to help move it forward? This issue has been automatically marked as stale because it has not had recent activity. It will be closed if no further activity occurs. |
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Yes, still relevant. |
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When switching from Android to iOS, is there no way to restore your backup? |
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No, because the iOS app does not have backup functionality for whatever reason. |
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Sorry to hear that you lost all of your conversations on your iPhone, @klodeckl. As someone already said, the Signal iOS database is purposefully excluded from iCloud/iTunes backups to prevent Apple (or someone else) from accessing your data. Signal also does not yet support cross-platform data transfers that would allow you to restore messages from a secondary desktop device to your new iPhone. One of the Signal iOS developers has said that they will most likely never implement a file based backup solution for iOS:
Signal also has a number of users on older versions of iOS which couldn't support a file based backup solution anyway. Instead, Signal is planning to support cross-platform device-to-device data transfers and offer an optional cross-platform encrypted cloud backup solution. However, given their current backlog, those features may still be several years away from being released. If you would like to discuss these feature requests, it would be better to continue this discussion over on Signal's official community forum (https://community.signalusers.org/). This bug tracker is no longer the right place for feature requests or other discussion topics, as stated in the project's issue template and contribution guidelines:
You can easily join the community forum with your existing GitHub account. |
How [explicit phrase] can this be claimed to be an "unfamiliar experience" when the default experience is that iOS is that app data is backed up? It sounds a lot like "we don't want users to own their own data". It is also a very odd thing to say when the code in this repository contains full backup functionality, you only need to enable dev mode to access it.
And this is obviously a UX design bug. |
You're right that most iOS users are probably familiar with the iCloud/iTunes backup experience. However, if Signal gave in and let users choose to use that as a backup method, they think Apple would also have access to the data. It would make sense for Signal to not make that a user-facing option if sharing all that data with Apple could undermine the security provided by Signal's end-to-end encryption. It wouldn't necessarily improve users' ownerwhip of their data because they still couldn't export it, but it would certainly increase third-party access to that data. What the developer was actually referring to by an "unfamiliar experience" was the way Signal backups are currently implemented on Android, where the data is also excluded from Android cloud backups and users need to generate separate backup files from within the Signal Android app, store a 30-digit passphrase somewhere safe, and manually move the files between devices. They don't think most iOS users would be familiar with having to generate separate backup files from within each app, copy around 30-digit passphrases, and then have to move the backup files around and restore them manually. The Signal team would rather continue hearing about lost message histories and skip to working on a cross-platform encrypted cloud backup solution than implement some mid-way file based solution that would just increase the load on their support team.
Well technically, the first post in this issue reads more like a support request than either a feature request or a bug report. According to Signal's contribution guidelines, support questions/requests do not belong in this issue tracker either. Any way you want to reframe the need for a backup solution, the contribution guidelines state very clearly that "bug reports should only be submitted for existing functionality that does not work as intended." Signal's documentation and release notes have never said that backups are supported on iOS, so until they do, discussion about the need for this feature belongs in the community forum. If you would like to discuss this lack of functionality from a UX perspective, the community forum also has a dedicated category for UI/UX Feedback. Reframing feature requests and support requests as bugs will not get the solutions implemented any faster. |
But that's not true since at least 2018 when encrypting a backup with iTunes or Finder... Why are claims like that still perpetuated in the Signal community? |
The code exists, it just inaccessible by most users: https://github.com/signalapp/Signal-iOS/pull/2925/files The functionality exists, it is just inaccessible to most users: |
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Also one can exclude Signal from any iCloud backup in the iPhone's settings. |
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This issue has been automatically marked as stale because it has not had recent activity. It will be closed if no further activity occurs. Thank you for your contributions. |
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Annoying bot. Still relevant. |
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"They [devs] don't think most iOS users would be familiar with having to generate separate backup files from within each app, copy around 30-digit passphrases, and then have to move the backup files around and restore them manually." Yet Android users are? Do they even have a clue what the bulk of Android users are? They are not the "Power Users" the devs arrogantly think they are. They are the majority of people on earth who can only afford the free subsidized smartphone available though their carrier. They are more often than not the poor and the uneducated, yet somehow these masses are more capable than iPhone users? Call a spade a spade; the Devs are condescending arrogant supercilious curmudgeons. This kids is why engineers should not be in charge of product design. Telegram it is. /unsubscribe |
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I just lost all of my messages because of this silly thing. Why I can not decide on backing up my data with my iOS? This is nonsense, I will stop the donation and encourage all of my friends to do it (as I encouraged them to start using Signal and donate). This is just unacceptable! |
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This issue has been automatically marked as stale because it has not had recent activity. It will be closed if no further activity occurs. Thank you for your contributions. |
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We'd still like proper backups please. |
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I think the primary problem isn't that Signal doesn't allow backups of conversation data on iOS. The primary problem is that Signal devs have gone to (extreme?) lengths to prevent standard iOS features regarding data management and security from working, which includes backups. All iOS apps must be fully backed up when backing up to a local computer with the "Back up all of your data on your iPhone to this Mac" is selected. (Local backups will be encrypted.) All iOS apps must be fully restored when data from a local backup is restored to (whether to a new device or not). All iOS apps should have all their data backed up to iCloud when the "Back up your most important data on your iPhone to iCloud" option is selected. All data should of course be securely encrypted so that even Apple cannot decrypt it (which should be easily possible using standard iOS features). This has been possible since iOS 13.4 and later. All iOS apps should be fully restored when data from a local backup is restored to (whether to a new device or not). All iOS apps must be fully cloned when transferring from a local device to a new device using the direct transfer option. All iOS apps should be fully cloned when transferring to a new device via the "download from iCloud" option. (By "fully" above I mean all data including configuration options, contact lists, all conversations, and all locally stored media.) Restoring or cloning to a new device should also keep the app fully functioning receiving new messages. Probably the first time the app is opened on the new device the PIN should be required though. All of these options come for free when app developers follow Apple's guidelines for data management, and all of these options are fully secure when app developers follow Apple's security guidelines. Apple further gives users the ability to control whether an app's data is stored in iCloud or not, on a per-app basis, or simply universally by not using iCloud at all. If a user doesn't trust iCloud for some reason, then they need not have their data stored there. Signal devs need to RTFM: https://developer.apple.com/documentation/Security What would be gravy, though of course highly valuable, would be an in-app method of exporting data to the "Files" app in such a way that it is both securely encrypted, and such that it could be restored on either an Android device, or even another already pre-installed iOS device, or even on a desktop. Obviously key management can be an issue here, but this can probably be solved by using a separate method for transferring the encryption key, such as by way of bluetooth or NFC. BTW, the currently implemented method of allowing a new iPhone to sync Signal data from an old device is not a solution in any what whatsoever. It is a cheap hack and it ignores the primary security problem of losing data because of a lost or damaged device. There are also subtle issues with maintaining connections to "synced" devices, such as desktop or laptop installations, when upgrading or replacing an iOS device. These should all remain fully connected so long as the same phone number is transferred to the new device (not the SIM, just the number). |
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Currently, there is no chat backup option for Signal on iOS, but we know it's a highly requested feature. An account and chat history transfer only takes place between the primary device (old phone) and its replacement (new phone). For your privacy, messages are only stored locally on your device and they are excluded from backup programs (like to iCloud). If you no longer have your old phone or wiped it already you won't be able transfer your message history to your new device. |
Please, very kindly, I ask again for you to stop categorising unexpected data loss and inability to use system-supplied security features as a feature. It is by all accounts a bug. Like not being able to use white space bar in a text editor. |
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This is ridiculous! How on earth the Signal developers so retardant like this. Fortunately most of my friends switched already to iOS and I can ditch Signal soon as everybody does. iMessage just works and no problem with backup. This company and this up just a peace of trash |
Sorry, but I think you're blatantly mis-characterizing this and ignoring the real problem. This isn't a feature request -- it's a bug report! Signal is violating standard user expectations on iOS, and for no good reason. iOS backups require the device to be unlocked. iOS cloning requires the device to be unlocked. All chat history is visible, obviously, when the device is unlocked. iOS local backups are securely encrypted. Normal iOS iCloud backups are securely encrypted with keys that are are only available with secure authentication. iOS iCloud backups can further be protected with "Advanced Data Protection for iCloud" (at least for all current Apple devices) in which case the encryption key is end-to-end and is only available to the device owner on their trusted devices (or optionally via a trusted third party). Apple provides tons of information about their security measures. Apple users are satisfied with Apple's security measures, or else they wouldn't be Apple users in the first place. We first and foremost need the standard iOS backup mechanisms to work as advertised by Apple for the Signal app. All app data and configuration must be copied to a full local backup, and optionally must be allowed to be copied to a normal iCloud backup under whichever protection levels have been chosen by the end user. A separate app-controlled backup/export (and re-import) of chat history and contacts is secondary and related feature request, but it is not the primary bug being reported here! |
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Just lost all my messages #5795 . Can't believe what a shit show I've just read through. Guess it's time to move everyone to Matrix, because if you can't self host it, it always ends up being a complete fucking failure. |
Hello,
I got a new iPhone (replacement), I restored the backup (via my Macbook) of my old phone. But there is no conversation stored after restoring the backup. I thought it would be included in the backup like it is included in Whatsapp. The only thing is that i use Signal desktop and there I have some conversations. Is there any way to get them back (from the backup or from the desktop app)? In the desktop app I only can view the media of the last two months or if I scroll endless. Thank you for your help.
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