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sheandhimhomework022211.html
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Interviews
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<b>She & Him</b>
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by <strong>Ryan Dombal</strong>,
posted <strong>March 15, 2010</strong>
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<p><i>Photo by Sam Jones</i></p>
<p>Some people seem to be good at everything. It can be annoying. But when it comes to actress, songwriter, singer, and burgeoning origami artist (explanation below) Zooey Deschanel, it's not so grating. Whether starring in movies like <i>(500) Days of Summer</i> or partnering with M. Ward for their retro-pop project She & Him, Deschanel exudes a modest likability. Even though she's got every right to show off, she doesn't.</p>
<p>This carried through to a recent interview with Deschanel and Ward in a downtown Manhattan hotel. The duo sat a few feet away from the hotel's main entrance, with a small divider offering some privacy from foot traffic and the front desk. Talking about their sophomore album, <i>Volume Two</i>, both Deschanel and Ward were warm, deferential, and kinda nerdy-- they're not scared to drop music-geek references or discuss some of the jazz chords used to shade their subtly sophisticated songs.</p>
<p>Since Deschanel writes the songs and sings for She & Him, she did most of the talking, with Ward happy to support her answers and add some wry commentary along the way. In the following chat, we talked about Master P, Joni Mitchell's beret, and playing mouth trumpet.</p>
<p><b>Pitchfork: </b>Was there a moment while making or touring behind <i>Volume One</i> where you guys thought, "This is something I could do for a while?"</p>
<p>M. Ward: I knew it could be a long-lasting thing after first hearing Zooey's demos because she had much more than one record's worth of material, and the quality of the songs was so great.</p>
<p>Zooey Deschanel: And I have so much respect for Matt. As long as he will work with me, I will work with him.</p>
<p>MW: This is where we fist bump. [<i>Zooey and Matt bump fists</i>.] There's at least one fist bump every interview.</p>
<p>ZD: There might be two, we don't know. But yeah, when I send a demo MP3 to Matt he'll always come up with production ideas that I never would have thought of in a million years. It's really fun to watch the songs blossom and unfold. Blossoming and unfolding are basically the same thing, but blossoming is more romantic, wouldn't you agree? [<i>laughs</i>]</p>
<p>MW: Blossoming is more floral.</p>
<p>ZD: Yeah, unfolding is more...</p>
<p><b>Pitchfork:</b> ...like origami.</p>
<p>ZD: Yeah. I finally figured out how to read origami directions. Have you ever tried to do it?</p>
<p>MW: I know the dotted line means fold.</p>
<p>ZD: Yeah, and then there are these dotted line arrows and you're like, "What the hell does that mean?" But, after staring at origami directions long enough, you sort of become one with them and start understanding them from the inside [<i>laughs</i>].</p>
<p><b>Pitchfork:</b> What did you make?</p>
<p>ZD: I <i>think</i> I made a zebra.</p>
<p>MW: Did it have four legs?</p>
<p>ZD: Yeah! It could stand up.</p>
<p>MW: Was it black and white?</p>
<p>ZD: Yes.</p>
<p>MW: Oh yeah, it was a zebra.</p>
<p><b>Pitchfork:</b> Are there any examples of songs on the new album that you wrote one way and then it turned into something else after working on it with Matt?</p>
<p>ZD: For "In the Sun", I originally composed it with a classic jazz chord progression-- with a little chromatic step-- and it was slower. But we got in the studio and Matt was like, "Why don't we put a Bee Gees beat on it?" And it totally came to life in a way I didn't expect.</p>
<p>MW: We were able to use those same chords, but it doesn't sound like jazz, it just sounds rich. People like Paul McCartney, Stevie Wonder, and Johnny Marr are geniuses at bringing in those major seventh and sixth and ninth chords in different ways.</p>
<p>ZD: I love a sixth chord. It's fun to take things from Gershwin and Cole Porter-- something a little more complex-- and make it sound like pop music. There are a million examples of not feeling the jazz, but <i>using</i> the jazz. [<i>laughs</i>] Carole King does it a lot.</p>
<p>Joni Mitchell's later records are like jazz. I've been watching a lot of Joni Mitchell YouTube clips and I can't believe her transformation from this folk singer in Canada. We found these really early videos of her, and it's like she's in a Disney movie she's smiling so much. And then you compare that to something like <i>Blue</i>, where she's really depressed. And then later with her beret. [<i>laughs</i>] Her look matches what she's feeling. That's why it's fun to watch her.</p>
<p><b>Pitchfork:</b> When you guys are in the studio, do you bring each other records to use as references?</p>
<p>ZD: Yeah. Whenever I buy a record I like, I will send a copy or at least a couple songs to Matt because we have very similar taste and it makes our language even more fluent.</p>
<p>MW: That's a big part of the collaboration. Zooey turned me onto Darlene Love, Connie Francis-- a lot of female singers.</p>
<p>ZD: You gave me that NRBQ record and that first Yo La Tengo record, which I freaking love.</p>
<p><b>Pitchfork:</b> Zooey, when listening to your lyrics I sometimes feel like a big sister is giving me advice. Would you say that's part of your personality?</p>
<p>ZD: [<i>laughs</i>] I like that. But I think it's more me giving advice to myself, actually. I'll have these internal moments where I'm empathizing with someone else or feeling something myself, but I'm like, "How can I see the best in this situation?" Sometimes those are the moments where you can have the most clarity. Like, "What would I tell myself if I were someone else?" or, "How would I feel if I were this person?" I think I have some sort of transferring empathy-- I get a lot of inspiration from that.</p>
<p>MW: Well said.</p>
<p><b>Pitchfork:</b> I'm curious about the genesis of the last song on <i>Volume Two</i>, "If You Can't Sleep", which is pretty much <i>a cappella</i>.</p>
<p>ZD: I originally recorded that song with ukulele and a bunch of harmonies and then I just muted the ukulele and was like, "Oh, that sounds good." I'll write and make chords with my voice sometimes if I don't have an instrument even though it takes a million times longer [<i>laughs</i>].</p>
<p>Then I sent it to Matt as an <i>a cappella</i> demo and we just did more harmonies. I don't like to plan harmonies too much, because there's something fun that happens when you just sing a pass, then sing another pass, and layer them on top of each other. All of a sudden you've got all these parts. We were talking a lot about the Beach Boys and how they triple their vocals, so I was like, "Every line has to be tripled." It was exhausting, but fun.</p>
<p><b>Pitchfork:</b> The song "Sing"-- which references the show "Cribs" and a "gold-plated ceiling"-- stood out to me because a lot of your songwriting has this timeless quality...</p>
<p>ZD: ...and that's the only one that has lyrics that are specific to today, right. That was an older song and I was like, "I can't keep a song with these lyrics on the record."</p>
<p>MW: I had to push for that song to get on the album.</p>
<p>ZD: I wrote that song while I was playing guitar in the middle of the night in London. Master P was on "MTV Cribs" and he had a gold plated-ceiling, I was like, "What?!" A lot of people are like, "Oh, this song must be about some dude." But it's more about myself than anything. It's about watching TV in the middle of the night. At that time, I was holed up in this apartment-- I was a recluse [<i>laughs</i>], I'm not gonna lie.</p>
<p><b>Pitchfork:</b> Why do you have an aversion to more contemporary songwriting styles and references?</p>
<p>ZD: I dunno. "Sing" is just slightly out of my comfort zone, but I think that's good. There are definitely things that were on the first record-- like the mouth trumpet solo on "This Is Not a Test"-- that I was like, "I don't know. You can't have a mouth trumpet solo." But I trust Matt and look to him for advice, and he was like, "I think the mouth trumpet is awesome."</p>
<p>MW: I wasn't in the control room saying, "How 'bout a mouth trumpet." She came up with it on her own, and I just opened the door.</p>
<p>ZD: And now I'm psyched that there's a mouth trumpet on that song.</p>
<p>MW: It might be the first song ever to have a good mouth trumpet solo.</p>
<p><b>Pitchfork:</b> Are there a lot of mouth trumpet solos out there?</p>
<p>MW: Bobby McFerrin might have dabbled in it.</p>
<p>ZD: In my mind, there's a Beatles song with a mouth trumpet on it.</p>
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<a href="/features/staff-lists/6400-the-200-greatest-songs-of-the-1960s/">1960s Songs</a>
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<a href="/p2k/">P2K: The Decade in Music</a>
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<a href="/features/staff-lists/5816-top-20-albums-of-2000/">2000 Albums</a>
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<a href="/features/staff-lists/5934-top-50-albums-of-2004/">2004 Albums</a> <span>|</span> <a href="/features/staff-lists/5933-top-50-singles-of-2004/">Singles</a>
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<a href="/features/staff-lists/6222-top-50-albums-of-2005/">2005 Albums</a> <span>|</span> <a href="/features/staff-lists/6221-top-50-singles-of-2005/">Singles</a>
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<a href="/features/staff-lists/7573-the-50-best-albums-of-2008/">2008 Albums</a> <span>|</span> <a href="/features/staff-lists/7572-the-100-best-tracks-of-2008/">Songs</a>
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<a href="/features/staff-lists/7744-the-top-50-albums-of-2009/">2009 Albums</a> <span>|</span> <a href="/features/staff-lists/7742-the-top-100-tracks-of-2009/">Songs</a>
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<a href="/features/staff-lists/7893-the-top-50-albums-of-2010/">2010 Albums</a> <span>|</span> <a href="/features/staff-lists/7895-the-top-100-tracks-of-2010/">Songs</a>
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