Refine Community Landing Page feature

[rlmoser99]

As a new TOP learner that wants to join their online community, when I click on "Community" at the top of the page, the Community Landing page should open.

Acceptance Criteria

AC1: What articles should be on the Community Landing page?

1. Community Rules (contains our zap enforcements)
2. How to Help Yourself Before Asking a Question
3. How to Ask a Technical Question
4. Additional Community Expectations

Questions to ponder:

• Does every new community member need to be aware of the zap system we have in place?
• Is focusing on punishments sending an unwelcoming message?

AC2: When I look at the articles on the Community Landing page, what should I see?

1. Steps with links to the articles, that will show "completed" when the user reads/completes each article (screenshot below)
2. Links to the articles (without visual difference of what has been read)

AC3: If we go with steps over links, how should learners "complete" the article

1. Checkbox with "I have read and agree to follow to participate in The Odin Project's Discord community" and a "Save" button (screenshot below)
2. No checkbox, just a "Complete" button (like the lessons)
3. On second thought, I'm not sure we need to show "completed" articles

AC4: When I click on the "Open Discord" button, at the bottom of lessons

1. Discord opens (current functionality)
2. The Community Landing Page should open
3. The Community Landing Page should open and we should re-word the button to be more accurate

AC5: When I click on the Discord icon in the footer, what should happen?

1. Discord opens (current functionality)
2. The Community Landing Page should open

AC6: When I click on the "chat bubble" icon in bottom corner, what should happen?

1. Discord opens (current functionality)
2. The Community Landing Page should open

Additional AC: Is there anything else we should put on our Community Landing page right now?

[fortypercenttitanium]

AC1

Does every new community member need to be aware of the zap system we have in place?
I would say no, that we should be using this page to invite and encourage learners to use the Discord. One they're in the Discord channel, I think that's the appropriate time to show the rules.

Is focusing on punishments sending an unwelcoming message?
Yes, I think so.

AC2

This all looks great

AC3

I'm not sure how I feel about there needing to be steps to complete here either, although it looks nice visually. It only makes sense to have a checkbox if the user is actually agreeing to something, like following the rules. But I mentioned about that I don't think that part is necessary for the landing page.

AC4

I feel like 3 is the best option here.

AC5

1 - If I clicked a discord logo and it didn't take me to the Discord, I'd be annoyed. Icons like this have a specific meaning that I don't think we should contradict.

AC6

Alternative: remove the chat bubble altogether. It doesn't make sense - those icons typically mean you can contact a customer service representative.

[KevinMulhern]

Thanks for putting this together @rlmoser99 , love the way this is laid out 💪

AC1

Does every new community member need to be aware of the zap system we have in place?

IMO it should only be used as an internal tool for mods to track infractions. I can't see any benefits with a majority of learners knowing about it other than the small minority that cause trouble. Exposing how it all works could also lead to some users "gaming" the system

Is focusing on punishments sending an unwelcoming message?

This page will be a users first impression with the community. I think we could potentially sending the wrong message with too much talk about rules and consequences. A more positive spin on how using the community will be beneficial to them and TOP is what I'd prefer to see here.

AC2

LGTM 💯

AC3 & AC4

@fortypercenttitanium made a good point about checkboxes making most sense when users are agreeing to something. I think option 3 would be my preference for the articles. But also having something on the community page that allows users to opt out from seeing the page when they visit the community link the next time.

We will have the community articles in the footer also, so they will be able to view them again if need be.

AC5

I think it makes sense for all links to go through the community page, until they "opt out" from seeing that page.

AC6

Removing this is probably the solution. We've been talking about removing the chat bubble for the Tailwind conversion. It was an integration we implemented when we used Gitter for the community. I agree with @fortypercenttitanium, those icons are typically for customer help services like Intercom.

[rlmoser99]

I'd like to focus on the two questions to ponder under AC1.

Questions to ponder:

• Does every new community member need to be aware of the zap system we have in place?
• Is focusing on punishments sending an unwelcoming message?

I think that every new community member needs to be aware are the zap system, just like they need to be aware of our rules. I think not telling people about the zap system is like being invited into your friends house and then being yelled by their parents because you didn't take your shoes off at the door. By not telling them about the zap system, they are caught off guard and easily get defensive when they get zapped.

I do not think the zap system should only be available internally. It has always been accessible to our community, although before we merged it with the rules in the #rules channel it was a bit hidden. I think after we merged them together in the #rules channel, it made it a lot more accessible to all of our users and I don't think it caught many people off guard.

I do not think we need to worry about people trying to game the system, because we keep notes of users and can ban them if they try to find loop holes. Plus we have the following wording in #rules

We expect everyone to handle themselves in a professional manner and follow the spirit of our community rules.

On this same topic of rules and matrix, Discord's Rules Screening still has the rules before we merged the matrix, so we might need to address this too.

In general, I do not think telling people about the punishments is unwelcoming. Instead, I think it communicates that we have a high expectation of behavior and that our community is well moderated.

I am curious what some of the moderators think about these two questions to ponder.

[KevinMulhern]

I think that every new community member needs to be aware are the zap system, just like they need to be aware of our rules. I think not telling people about the zap system is like being invited into your friends house and then being yelled by their parents because you didn't take your shoes off at the door. By not telling them about the zap system, they are caught off guard and easily get defensive when they get zapped.

If they know the rules this shouldn't be a problem imo. Using the same analogy, I wouldn't have any issues being told the house rules, I'd expect that. But imagine your friends parents telling you they were going to track everything you did wrong with a system they devised before letting you in. I personally wouldn't feel welcome nor want to go back.

I do not think we need to worry about people trying to game the system, because we keep notes of users and can ban them if they try to find loop holes. Plus we have the following wording in #rules

For this, I was specifically thinking about informing learners how zaps decay. That can lead to situations were some dedicated trolls could wait out the decay. If we do include the zaps in these pages would it be okay to drop the sections about zaps decaying or are those definitely needed?

In general, I do not think telling people about the punishments is unwelcoming. Instead, I think it communicates that we have a high expectation of behavior and that our community is well moderated.

I can appreciate this sentiment and definitely think some will see it that way. But most of our learners never break any rules, they either take part with no issues or lurk. I'm worried a sizeable number of those users will feel like they are being treated like the enemy.

But, I can also appreciate a lot of this is speculation on both sides of the argument. Users are going to be impacted the most with this so their feedback should be the ultimate guide.

[scheals]

AC1: What articles should be on the Community Landing page?

• Does every new community member need to be aware of the zap system we have in place?

Yes. We inform them of the rules when they join Discord anyway. When I go go-karting, I am informed of the rules and fines I'll get for breaking them. When I go bowling, I am informed of the rules and fines I'll get for breaking them. Sure, they might give me the quick rundown of the most common rule breaks but they'll make sure I sign a paper with the rules on them and refer to their contents.

Now - our zap system is our rules. So the question basically is "Does every new community member need to be aware of the rules we have in place?" to which this has to be a resounding yes. Furthermore, we already deny new users access to discord until they agree to the rules there. Also, a webpage probably is the best format for showing rules text we can have.

• Is focusing on punishments sending an unwelcoming message?

We're not focusing on punishments. We're letting people know how we view particular offences and what standards we have. It signals that we have an objective (as much as it can be), clear and transparent point system. It is predictable, measurable and direct. It gives people something to hold us accountable to. I believe it builds trust.

To me, a different question needs to be asked: do the rules have to be the top article in the Community Page?

My answer would be a no. Put the help articles first, so it's:

1. How to Help Yourself Before Asking a Question
2. How to Ask a Technical Question
3. Community Rules
4. Additional Community Expectations

I'm more concerned with quality of questions rather than rule breaking at this point in time. Hopefully people who go through those articles will be more interested in reading the rules as well - we've provided them something nice - guides how to get help & help others so now maybe they'll be more keen on reading up on the rules.

Alternative approach to having a Community Rules page in Important Reading:

• Instead of full rules, present the most common transgressions.
• Describe the point system, the decay and how the warnings are given - perhaps, maybe even show a mock user-mod interaction?
• Describe how to use ModMail - possibly, include someone reporting a rule break as the starting point of the mock mentioned in the previous point.
• Link to the full rules.

I believe this for another issue entirely but I want to make a note of it here first:

• Community Rules page is out of sync with how #rules on discord looks like, currently the only thing out of sync is the description of chatbombing.
• Community Rules page and #rules both have the wrong e-mail to the staff - it should be theodinprojectcontact@gmail.com instead of theodinproject@gmail.com
• I believe we should include a link to our new Staff concern form in both places as well.

AC2: When I look at the articles on the Community Landing page, what should I see?

This looks good, maybe possibly change Important Reading to Becoming Best Odinite or something along these lines. Make the user feel special for going through these articles. Sure, the flipside means they're not becoming the best Odinite by not reading them but that's... kind of true.

AC3: If we go with steps over links, how should learners "complete" the article

Since I believe that we're not compelling people to go through those articles before getting the Discord link, I'd go with 2. Or maybe with a button that says Another step in becoming the Best Odinite!, this might reinforce the idea I voiced in AC2.

AC4: When I click on the "Open Discord" button, at the bottom of lessons

I think I'd go with 3.. If someone wants to go to Discord directly let them click the Discord logo.

AC5: When I click on the Discord icon in the footer, what should happen?

Going with 1. - open the Discord.

AC6: When I click on the "chat bubble" icon in bottom corner, what should happen?

We should get rid of it, probably. On the other hand, it might be the most sensible thing for some people to click on if they want to get in touch... Does it get clicked a lot? Do we have any feedback on it?

Additional AC: Is there anything else we should put on our Community Landing page right now?

I would love for us to have an article - an instruction how to use Discord - might be worth to look through proposals like:
Beginner's Guide
Change !help command

We probably should include our FAQ entry on ModMail + explain how it works with a mock picture-by-picture guide.

Gaming the zap system

So, zap decay is taken care of by infractions moving to further levels on repeats and the fact we can and will change zap amount depending on circumstances. The entire system must be transparent to the users to create trust and understanding. There are intricacies in how we use the matrix internally that I am happy to discuss in the proper channels - or here if y'all are okay with that, I probably am - but those are rather user-friendly intricacies rather the other way around, so it's not like we're doing users a disservice not letting them know every bit and bolt of the moderation machine.

And maybe somewhat interestingly, so-called help vampires rarely break rules to a point where they'd get banned through the zap entries. They might crosspost once or twice. They might ask a question about a personal project once. They might do unsolicited pinging or DMing once or twice. Anyway, given how we moderate they'll understand how we stand on these things and correct their behaviour and won't be a problem in those regards. Those that lash out are obviously an easier case in terms of showing them the door, but there have been cases where a help vampire is not a serial rule breaker and zap decay matrix dodger, they're just a help vampire. So far, we've been doing a good job on dealing with help vampires and the matrix zaps are a great starting point to reach out to those people and start a conversation.

New users and rules

So, I'd agree that most of the new users do not break rules when they're new. This usually stems from them having some basic experience in how to communicate in various places or behaving with common sense rather than reading the rules is my feeling. Also, our rules are really not stringent and our application of them favours the users. There's not much to break here easily, really.

When it comes to our community expectations though, most of our new users absolutely have no idea about them is my feeling. Given our resources and lessons, there are questions that should not be asked the way they are asked and still, they are happening and with our growth will happen increasingly. We shall see whether our community is resilient and resourceful enough to deal with it. I think weekends are somewhat a taste of what happens when the proportions of established members to non-established members skew towards the other a lot and we've had trouble with unqualified people strongly wording their opinions without a professional present to push back on them.

What about the lessons that cover the same content?

We might possibly split the Join the Odin Community lesson OR shorten the lesson, distil its contents and make the Community Page include the more expansive explanations and link to that Community Page in the refreshed Join the Odin Community lesson. Currently the lesson is pretty darn long, probably doesn't have to have all the content it has in itself and seems like Community Page might be a great solution for this. Possibly even maybe make this lesson's "Next Lesson" button take the user to the Community Page? The articles there are already shorter, so easier to digest and can be more "specialized". I know my suggestion might end up with Community Page being somewhat of a course on its own but maybe if it is this "Become the Best Odinite" with pick & choose kind of thing that people can read when they need it? It's super late, I've been writing this for quite long time now so I guess it is time to stop for me 😆

[rlmoser99]

For the idea of creating a new page that doesn't not go into such detail about the rules, we could modify the additional community expectations page.

In regards to the chat bombing being out of sync, I just looked at it and I am not seeing how it is out of sync. Just the styling is different, but the words are the same. I've changed the email in #rules channel, but we will need to make a PR to make these changes in the TOP website. Thanks for pointing out these differences (and the staff form too)

I'm not sure I like the wording of "Becoming Best Odinite" but I like the idea of it. The wording of Important Reading was just my initial idea and I am open to other ideas.

I agree that users are not fully aware of our community expectations and how to ask a question, which was a large part of why I wanted to require them to see this material before joining Discord. I am not sure how we can improve this, but I am interested in brainstorming some ideas and seeing if we could add it to the idea of a Beginners Guide or something.

I like the idea of changing the lessons that cover the same content. The original idea was to remove 2 of the lessons from Foundations, to make sure they are not hidden in Foundations. But since we are no longer requiring these articles, I really like the idea of shortening them and pointing them to these articles!

[ManonLef]

AC1: What articles should be on the Community Landing page?

I personally think the most important part the users should be made aware of is what we expect in our community because this is exactly what sets us apart from many other communities in my opinion. The kind of professional and constructive environment we are trying to uphold and the ways in which we build extra skills in the discord through interacting with people are of great value.

I think the above information is mostly highlighted in the community expectations article, so I'd probably put that on top of the list and rename it to it's original title as opposed to additional community expectations.

Questions to ponder:

1. Does every new community member need to be aware of the zap system we have in place?
2. Is focusing on punishments sending an unwelcoming message?

1. Yes they should, although as far as I know they are made aware of it when joining the community. I'd rather have a line on the community landing page or in the community expectations article refering to how we uphold the great community vibe by having a ruleset (and link to it) and that everyone is expected to adhere to them to keep the place awesome. They will then see the exact rules when joining.
2. In my opinion yes for the community landing page. I'd much prefer to have people join because because they feel like a good fit and connected to the idea of a professional and helpful community where you will make new meaningful connections and work on your programming and secondary skills at the same time. while also being made aware we have rules we expect everyone to adhere to.

I have to mention my answers on these 2 questions are also based on me not feeling really comfortable with the zap system and would even go as far to say it doesn't feel "mature" (in lieu of a better word) and in line with the overall seriousness and professionalism we carry out. But I hope we can have a discussion about that separately one day and maybe even find something that works similar but with more common phraseology (instead of zaps, warnings for example).

AC2: When I look at the articles on the Community Landing page, what should I see?

The community expectations article has links to all of the other links besides the rules. I can see that being the starting point for all the info if we were to rewrite it a little. The wording in it is really representative of what we expect and I'd rather send people there than to the rules page. Rules sound strict indeed, but they're basically just an explanation of the opposite of what's expected in the community.

So I'd rather give an intro about how we think the community is valuable personally, as a whole and how we try to keep it that way, and then link to the community expectations as being their starting point to finding out what we expect from everyone joining it because that's why it's such a great place to be.

AC3: If we go with steps over links, how should learners "complete" the article

2 or 3. They will officially agree upon joining discord.

AC4: When I click on the "Open Discord" button, at the bottom of lessons

I'd go with 3. Rewording it to something like Join our Discord or Join our Community . The current wording sounds like I should expect 1 and it would bypass the community landing page.

Also mentioning something more inviting above the button like "Be part of the active TOP community" omiting the words our and including active may sound more open and attractive.

AC6: When I click on the "chat bubble" icon in bottom corner, what should happen?

That icon is used to get in touch with a company usually. I'd expect it to open a chat or send an email to the company helpdesk. I don't see any connection to discord for it.

[scheals]

I just realised that this content is currently not linked by the site at all.

The Community Rules page seem to only be linked in the #rules channel. How To Ask page is also buried in the crossposting guideline of Community Rules both on page and on Discord. Community Expectations page is only linked by Thor (so if someone doesn't have embeds enabled, they won't see it) in #rules channel - that page links to both How To Ask and Before Asking.

Not sure how the Community Landing Page feature is coming along, but I think it'd be good to include a link to Community Expectations just like #rules version does on the Community Rules page in the meantime.