Innawood mod

[NetSysFire]

Discussion about the Innawood mod

[Proxima-b]

After almost 20 hours of innawood gameplay. I feel that late-medieval era tech should not be the endgame of innawood, with slight recipe tweak it would be possible to get blunderbass, flintlocks and pipe explosive,Steam engine should also have a way to be unlocked, combine with the utilization of coal and generator, the endgame point could be set at industrial age. What a wonderful gameplay! However, copper, tin and lead and aluminum should be minable somehow.

[NetSysFire]

I just saw #48391, that might be interesting, too.

[Light-Wave]

I just saw #48391, that might be interesting, too.

Oh that would be brilliant.

[NetSysFire]

There are a couple of things I'd like to implement some day for more wilderness fun.

• Less dependency on nails
  • You should be able to construct fences with cordage or string
  • Even in the iron age, nails were rare. Construction still worked without them.
• Post and beam walls, so you can have stone walls which can support a roof
• Some more fortifications, like pits filled with more stuff, but traps are more or less hardcoded right now so this will be difficult
• Something I am actually currently working on: Balancing parasites, so you do not immediately get brainworms from drinking unclean water, but tapeworms are way more common.

[Light-Wave]

Here's my TODO

--- Important ---
More neutral animal spawns

--- WIP ---

--- Less important ---
Rebalance starting scenario point costs
Portal storm seed buds
Portal storms spawn farm animals nearby?

--- Non critical -----
Gems?
Ore veins
Investigate island starts
Add more withered plants from trees (Tree drops are hardcoded)
Consider making primitive items spawn in caves?
Remove mon_beekeeper from beehives?
Add more cool yet natural loot to spider pits
make concrete available. Craftable primitive concrete mixer?
Consider ressurrecting and integrating More_Survival_Tools from https://github.com/ymber/Cataclysm-DDA/tree/4ffe1a28eccac6dcc3b0bc14167352ac7d087c28/data/mods/More_Survival_Tools
Consider integrating Mining Mod further
Less hostile cave npcs
Make fences without nails

--- Things that will most likely not be implemented ---
Remove all book requirements

--- Potential improvements to the main game ---
Non-plastic fish traps
Beekeeping
More natural map specials
A more realistic source of ammonia
Cultivate wild plants, including buckwheat and dogbane
Standardize and .jsonify log chopping results

[Light-Wave]

How about stuff like chitin plates or so? In the lore, e.g deer have in their description that they are the preferred prey of spiders, so perhaps also bones?

If you are in a position to loot a spider cave, then you are probably already swimming in chitin pieces. Although more bones would make sense.

I thought about adding bark armor to the PR I am still working on

Sounds like a good idea indeed.

I am fairly sure humans already figured the wheel out before they figured out how to make nails. Making a primitive set of wheels and putting a basket, either straw or even more efficient and sturdy, some branches tied together on top of it should be a really useful and primitive shopping cart.

You can already make a Travois with some rope and some sticks. I found them useful to move large quantities of items. Having primitive wheels would help with that.

[juliavetter]

Make fences without nails

You can already make woven wattle fences. Each completed fence tile takes 14 sticks or 7 long sticks. I have used them to make a chicken coop.

[NetSysFire]

I am aware, as I filed the feature request for this :p

Woven wattle fences are not exactly sturdy though. Would be nice if I could also craft a fence to contain bigger animals.

[NetSysFire]

So about armor again, I found https://siberiantimes.com/science/casestudy/features/warriors-3900-year-old-suit-of-bone-armour-unearthed-in-omsk/ which may be of interest.

[Light-Wave]

So about armor again, I found https://siberiantimes.com/science/casestudy/features/warriors-3900-year-old-suit-of-bone-armour-unearthed-in-omsk/ which may be of interest.

This too sounds like it would make more sense to try to get into the main game, rather than this mod.

[NetSysFire]

I think one thing that would also be really useful is a makeshift scythe or so for grass cutting. Straw is really hard to obtain otherwise.

[NetSysFire]

I would even mainline it actually. Perhaps a primitive sickle will work. We already have a stone axe, a stone adze so a stone sickle should work, too. Maybe even made from bone alternatively.

[Light-Wave]

If you can get that past Kevin then go for it, sure. Maybe you could also change the construction grascutting options to use tools with GRASS_CUTTING 1 instead of a predetermined list?

[NetSysFire]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sickle#Neolithic

That looks pretty easy to implement

[NetSysFire]

I just submitted #55086 for a stone sickle.

[Light-Wave]

Great!

[NetSysFire]

I have an idea on how to potentially mitigate the lack of water until you get a clay pot or similar: More plants you can use.

There is a lack of variety in plants in general in my opinion but one potential relevant addition could be the japanese knotweed. It is an invasive species which is present in at least Massachuetts and it appears you can get some small amounts of water as well as nutrition out of the stems. See https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reynoutria_japonica
This is also a spring vegetable. You already have enough sources of water in summer due to all the berries and fruits.

[Light-Wave]

Sounds like something that would fit in the main game. Feel free to try and get in included there, I would say.

[Proxima-b]

With Innawood mod, I think the frequency of portal storm should be significantly decreased. Portal storms that lasts 12 hours every 2 days might be fun in the base game, but it does not feel like an appropriate experience for innawood.

[Light-Wave]

I believe it is set to every 2 to 4 days right now. I agree that it is getting a bit repetitive and annoying. However, I believe @Ramza13 is working hard on balancing portal storms right now. So I'm a bit reluctant to try to alter the code for that.
That being said, If I understood it correctly, the timer is handled by EOC_PORTAL_STORM_WARN_OR_CAUSE_RECURRING in portal_storm_effect_on_condition.json It seems like the recurrence values could be changed for less frequent portal storms. More discussion at #52475

In short, I'm reluctant to try to alter the balance of portal storms right now, since their balance is actively being worked on. But if you want to modify the files for yourself, you can give it a go.

[juliavetter]

I agree with Proxima. I admit that I have disabled portal storms completely in my own playthrough. In the base game, portal storms are much easier to deal with since there are so many buildings around and it's easier to construct a fully sealed vehicle. In innawood the only feasible early to mid game way to deal with them is to hide in a cave for a while, and without books to kill time, it feels like a waste. Though it can be worse, if you get caught out far away from a cave. But I would like to see what improvements Ramza comes up with.

[Proxima-b]

But if you want to modify the files for yourself, you can give it a go.

One of my friends whom I introduced innawood mod to did not know how to do that, hence was kind of traumatized by portal storm. I don't think she'll ever be playing this mod again.
It do have catastrophic and game-ruining experience of some if the whole situation wasn't resolved quickly. So I'm suggesting a temporary fix until @Ramza13 resolves this.

[Light-Wave]

Improvised shelters and a single tile vehicle with a roof should both offer protection from portal storms, to my knowledge. Also, in my experience, portal storms are scary but not very lethal, so you should be able to get back to shelter without dying.

That being said, perhaps some bushes could act as hiding spaces? They could function like cardboard boxes or improvised shelters, letting you hide from both predators, prey, and scary weather.

[Light-Wave]

I ended up deciding to nerf portal storms heavily for Innawood. See #55644

[NetSysFire]

@Light-Wave, while digging through old issues I found #26302 which may be of interest

[Light-Wave]

Looking into making tents or tent-like structures craftable seems like a reasonable idea. I'll add a note for it to the list.

[NetSysFire]

So it definitely took me some time to find and research about this, but flint and even bone mining tools were used by neolithic people: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2MLCddZ3Upo

I can't find data on how good they actually were, but I suspect you will still need a good amount of time to mine one tile. But primitive mining tools are proven to exist, so mining should not be out of reach to the player.

[Light-Wave]

This sounds like it would make more sense to try to get into the main game.
Also, right now there doesn't seem to be an easy way to make different digging tools have different digging speed, other than the hardcoded difference between pickaxes and jackhammers.

[NetSysFire]

Something I just thought about, how about nerfing how many points the illiterate trait gives in the mod? There are no books or computers anywhere. Maybe even remove the trait entirely.

[Light-Wave]

I've added nerfing illiterate and medieval peasant to my to-do. I have some vague ideas about adding writing to Innawood as part of some sort of research system, but the trait should probably be removed for now, yes.

[Sathra225]

For getting non-wild seeds, maybe have them as rare drops from triffid faction creatures? Or butchery/dissection (if that allows multiple options as a drop chance).
Alternatively/in the same line: Portal storm occurances with triffids. Something like a new 'creature' with some seeds as drops that appears with a few triffids (2-3). Triffid node or something. As in they're transporting some new flora samples to a different reality and got shunted by the storm off-course.
Storm critters despawn after a while, and if that can be set to a different time to the storm itself, maybe have them disappear a few hours after the storm does. Could do something similar with zomborgs or exodii thing. Their WIP lore had that they use the Nether during an exodus to echo-copy stuff, so some of those could be diverted for a bit. That would be a way to get non-craftable electrical/mechanical bits in. Of course, zomborgs butcher products can be useless bionics so maybe remove those as drops (and replace with something else/only burnt out stuff) or use lab/police robots.

On a completely different note, craftable horse tack?

[DIBAOS]

I find that we could make planks by stone adzes and bone chisels, maybe it takes a lot of time, but it works indeed. Planks can be used in many recipes and constructions so they're very important.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=naDixnm0VgM

[Sathra225]

I'm considering adding a bunch of bronze tools. Axe, hoe, shovel, knife, shears, maaybe hammer. They'd use the sand casting mold and bronze anvil (for work hardening), and would expand uses for those items and bronze as a whole. Could also add bronze spear, javelins, and nails.
Maybe even hammered bronze sheet metal that could be gotten earlier and used for some of the crafts that steel sheet metal is used for. Though bronze doesn't like ammonia.

[Light-Wave]

Sounds like it would fit in mainline, yes.

[Sathra225]

After the pump PR gets cleared I'll do a PR for: Cast-bronze axe (tree cutting 2, cut 1, butcher 16), knife (cut 2, fine cut 1), shears/scissors (cut 2, fabric cut 1) and either a hoe/adze or pick mattock (its a hoe and pickaxe on a metre-plus long shaft).
These would all need a forge + cruicible, at least bronze anvil, and hammering 2 like the bronze weapons. Which is a bit odd, so the knife and scissors would also need a grinding 2 tool (so polishing stone) as they need to be sharper.
Axe would, I think, make tree cutting a bit faster and allow planks to be made earlier. Knife and scissors would make Fabric and Fine Cutting available earlier as well.
Hoe/adze is just to make farming easier. They're basically the same thing at this scale. Technically we should be able to use the stone adze for tilling as is. Might change that instead.
Pick mattock I'm not sure on. Due to the code this would basically be a pickaxe AND a hoe, with no downside besides being very long. Also a bad weapon, but fairly dangerous.
Maybe bronze buttons as well. These would be cast in clay then broken out and sanded smooth (clay for precision to make the holes) in batches of 10 or so. This one is more QoL, as currently its really hard to get fasteners unless you're lucky to find a beehive.
Alternatively, wax as a drop from foraging or something.

Then a different one to add the still as autolearn (with makeshift copper pot added), and a carved wooden funnel treated with oil (needed for sausages, also adding to sausage recipes).
Might add the crude hotplate as well (lamp oil cooker, small metal sheets, scrap metal) plus the altered chemistry set so it uses lamp oil.
Rubber would involve adding latex and chunk of rubber recipes and updating their requirements, and the rubber one states that it'd like a delayed transform (like fermenting food does).
Might just add a leather sole (leather + rosin/wax? Or scale down the stuff used for boiled leather armour).

Platinum is sometimes found as a native metal, or can be found in meteorites. Meteorites sounds more interesting (travel!), so possible spawn in the deep craters? With that, dry batteries are possible. Its just a really long chain.

• Basic chemistry kit (so after full forge setup and Fab 9 for sheet metal for glass bottles): this is for sulphuric acid to hydrochloric to acidic paste.
• Duct tape (need plastic so needs a goat/cow/sheep)
• Paper (made from scratch so either fab 9 for sheet metal or change bash drops from t_paper)
• Full forge setup for making the batteries themselves.
  Then need to add...heavy dry batteries to electrolysis kit, add some kind of crude soldering iron (solder is already craftable) and yeah. Bleach is possible if changed to autolearn.

[Light-Wave]

Your ideas for bronzeworking sounds good. Right now you need an iron pickaxe to mine new ores, but bronzeworking could be used to utilize ore found in caves. We should probably add ore drops to more caves as well, as an aside. I also think it would be fair to make nails out of bronze. And you could try to push all bronzeworking related stuff to mainline.

Still as autolearn sounds like a good idea as well, and adding the copper pot as an alternative sounds perfectly reasonable.

For funnel, maybe using the leather funnel for sausages would be good enough, rather than create a new funnel type?

For crude hotplate, I don't think we need to differentiate between a lamp oil cooker and a crude hotplate. I also think the chemistry kit uses the battery and wires for electrolysis, so in my opinion, it should still use electric charge, not oil. I do however have plans to introduce a makeshift power converter that could be used to craft hotplates, soldering irons, and makeshift arc welders. That should deal with that.

For rubber, most of the recipes seems to already exist, just need to make them autolearn.

Platinum seems to be a somewhat common byproduct of smelting copper, so I think I add some there. Should be enough as you only need a tiny amount.

[Sathra225]

Cool.
Bronze nails might need to be a seperate PR, due to how many recipes they'd have to be added to.
Yeah, the funnel was just to cover if a rigid funnel was really needed for sausages. The plastic ones aren't craftable in Innawoods because plastic bottles and such need a vacuum molder.
The rubber/latex recipes are strange, as they aren't learnable at all currently. Still, a use for formic acid (which also needs a funnel).

[Light-Wave]

I was thinking just make it so the nail item can be crafted from bronze as well, and change the description to match.

A pin-shaped piece of metal, can be used to construct various things with a hammer.

Formic acid seems to be craftable using a mortar and pestle instead of a funnel, unless I'm misreading things. The alternative recipe should also be possible to use if you can get the tools, as you can get glycerol as a byproduct from making soap. Which reminds me, the fractional distillation apparatus and the thermometer should also be craftable, preferably.

[Sathra225]

Yeah, it was more the material data I was concerned about with the nails. I don't think you can break them up into scrap, so that's okay, and all the other uses can be bronze. It was more if it was going to be mainline they probably would have to be seperate.
I could just add a third recipe but the result would magically be iron.

The funnel for the sting-recipe for formic acid uses a funnel as one of the tools.
Thermometer could arguably be crafted with ethanol, glass and some kind of dye. Mutant organs are butchery product from insects, so cochineal-equivalent might be possible (could also make paint craftable this way). Getting the set-points, dunno. Ethanol boiling point and body temp could be marked (ethanol as its the max of what this thermometer type can read). Other than that, eh, handwave if you want.

Fractional distillation apparatus isn't used for much besides high-end mutagen. Pure acetic acid, formic acid from wood and cannabis extract (which needs a vacuum pump).

[Sathra225]

Been looking up glass manufacture, as I've been trying to find out what the current glass shard recipe is even based on. I think its meant to be some kind of arcane method of soda-lime glass. No idea about the sheet metal though.
There's another kind of glass, potash-lime glass (aka forest glass) that is possible though. Technically it should use a different crucible due to required temperature that is more like a fire brick (silica ceramic), but so does iron/steel smelting so meh. Its used nowadays for laboratory glassware and such (it can handle higher heat without cracking).

In game terms, it would be lye powder, quicklime, sand, kiln, crucible and a quern (for grinding and mixing). The result can be either glass shards or 'raw glass' that you then turn into glass shards by remelting, probably the former. Would use more fuel as it needs a much higher heat (+200 C). As for pouring it, could use a metal pot.
Alternatively, change the difficulty of sheet metal. Possibly by using the welding recipe as a base (small metal sheets) but approximate forge welding (so it'd use metal scrap + forge/hammer/anvil/flatjaw tongs).
Thoughts?

[Light-Wave]

Did some digging, seems like the original recipe was added by #9580

[Light-Wave]

Yeah I don't see why you would need sheet metal specifically. I think it would be fine to use pot, makeshift pot, or copper pot instead. I'm currently putting together a rather large pull request for Innawood, so I'll add the pots to the current glass shards recipe.

As for the new glass recipe, it sounds like a good idea. I think it should produce glass shards, as I don't think adding a raw glass item is needed. You could try push that into mainline, as it sounds reasonable to be able to use this recipe in the base game.

[Sathra225]

Still no idea why it requires sheet metal. For glass sheets, that makes sense. For shards, not so much. Its probably never come up though, as you could always scavenge it. Could always just remove that part of the recipe and replace it with something else. Metal pot would be fine.

And sheet metal crafting was added by #28843. I have no idea why it was set at fab 9 though. Maybe because making a big sheet is a major project? They're 75cm to 1m square.
Which has the odd result in that it takes less skill to made a steel barrel (8) from scratch than sheet metal.
It actually takes less overall skill to make a metal pot from scratch in Innawoods than a makeshift funnily enough.

[Sathra225]

Gradually working on another big PR. A breaker/scutching construction for faster plant-fibre crafting, making yokes autolearn, 4 new weapons (epsilon axe/halberd, war darts/fletched javelins, plumbatae and brush axe) and bronze sheet metal for some construction tasks. Oh, and autolearn pikes for cavalry funs.

Still deciding if I should add grass cloth (from plant fibre) as an alternative to cotton for clothing (will need to make more clothing). Alternatively, some kind of triffid thing for more access to domestic seeds. It'll probably be a portal storm event. Either something you murder that drops seeds, or something you smash (after murdering guards) that drops some seeds.
Or just seeds as triffid dissection results.

Also versions of the survivor suits made out of rags and leather/steel and/or chitin (probably leather for light, chitin for medium, chitin and steel for heavy). Alternatively, raw silk from spiderwebs+resin to make a variant kevlar panel.

Thoughts?

[Sathra225]

Oh, and a makeshift bandage from birchbark and cordage. Plus a better version including glycerol and garlic.
The 'wild' survivor gear would include harness and rigging equivalents (which would be essentially be hip forager pouches and something like a bandoleer with pouches instead)

[LoganSan]

I'm sorry, but I haven't found any messages about this. The game has one safe way of pumping combat skills with a mannequin, but to create it you need milk (God-made plastic), and what if you draw a cross on a mannequin with charcoal? It's eze way...
Or what if you add oil paint crafts (through latex, natural colorants from flowers, zinc powder, titanium oxide and their evaporation) It's the hard way =)

[Sathra225]

Yeah, I've been waffling on this one too. Been meaning to research if mixing something like latex and lamp oil would make a reasonable paint base to add colour too.
Then colouring it with charcoal/metal oxides/organic extracts.
Though there is the survival marker as well.
I'll let @Light-Wave weigh in on this.

[Light-Wave]

I agree that the survival marker should be good enough in this case.

[Sathra225]

Alright, got 2 PR's to do tonight, so I'll add that to the Innawoods one.

[Light-Wave]

Excellent

[NetSysFire]

Sorry if that has been resolved already, but is there now a way to level applied science in a less pointless way than making salt water and boiling down said water?

[Light-Wave]

Making salt gets you to level 1. Salt is used in a variety of things, including processing hides.
Making lye gets you to level 2. It is quite useful mid- to lategame.
Soap can be used to get to level 3. While not terribly useful on its own, it produces glycerol which will be vital in the production of rubber-soled boots.

Of course, if you have poor access to saltwater, then perhaps the method you mentioned is the most practical. But you really want a good supply of saltwater in Innawood.

[Sathra225]

Also making salt from rock salt is an Applied Science 0 recipe. Otherwise, what Light-Wave said. Salt is one of the core resources in Innawoods, so you can't really get far without it.

[NetSysFire]

Yeah but this is a very grindy and sort-of pointless way. With e.g fabrication or cooking or tailoring etc there is at least a bunch of stuff you can try to level the skill with. I am most definitely not a chemistry/applied science expert irl, so I can not really suggest something specific here, sorry. The only thing I could think about is using some sticks to make improvised survival markers, basically charring it in a controlled way. The resulting item will not have nearly as many charges as a "proper" survival marker and this might even be more fabrication and less applied science.

[brianAckermann]

How does anybody feel about a bit of an overhaul to cheese-making? I find that the current method rubs me the wrong way a bit.

Instead, I was thinking of adding in some new crafting tools and ingredients.

• A process to make rennet from the stomach of a mammal. This would involve chopping up the stomach, and then adding some things to it (saltwater, vinegar,etc), and then putting it aside to stew for a few days (similar to tanned hides, or, I suppose curdling milk). Once done, you'd filter the works, and get out some usable rennet (1 gram of rennet is enough to curdle a couple of liters of milk... a much better outcome than 1 entire stomach per hard cheese).
• after we have rennet on hand, then we modify the curdling milk recipe to use that.
• And finally, we update the hard cheese recipe to also require a cheese press/mold (something like a wooden bucket, a plate, and something heavy (rocks/bricks/etc), and probably some rags to hold it all together.... again, this goes on a timer, so we end up with edible cheese some time after we're done "making" it.

From what I can see, this should all be doable from JSON, but, I don't know if I want to start if its not going to be needed.

Thoughts?

[brianAckermann]

And, agreed... the biggest problem I have with the current recipe is how little rennet is "produced" by the games current models. From what I'm seeing, a single stomach would (in our reality) generally produce quite a bit of rennet (fun fact, rennet spoils so, you couldn't just make a bunch of rennet and be done with it, making cheese whenever you like. you'd go in for a big batch job)... but I'll do some research and figure out how much REALLY we are talking about.

[brianAckermann]

So.. fun research... its looking like (according to various google-scanned farmers journals from the 1890s ...urls recorded for later use), that, when you make rennet, you'll do so with 3-4 stomachs (aka "vells") per gallon of salt water. Plus some acids for good measure. Couple of lemons, what have you :D

Let it sit for a good while... strain it, and you're good to go.

10oz (~300 ml) will coagulate 100 gallons (~450 liters) of milk.

That works out to about 1 "unit" of rennet will coagulate about 1600 "units" of milk.

(( modern methods agree, around 1-5g of "vells material" per 1000L of milk ))

So, my gut feeling about not getting enough cheese per stomach utilized is correct. The big question will be how to translate. Guess I have a few lines of thought.

First:

• keep the existing curdled milk recipe more or less as is, but make it require more milk to balance things out. No amount of milk works reasonably here, other than a functional dairy farm. 1600L milk on hand. But as @Light-Wave said: "less fiddly, more expensive"... some compromise could be made to get more curdled milk per stomach, but I'm not thinking of a good way to do that.
• Maybe, a handful of recipes that all do the same thing, excepting different values of milk added in? in 10L increments? I'm not a fan of that.
• One 40L recipe? I might be ok with that, personally, but not sure how others would feel. The "rennet" method would let everybody do what they've been doing, as far as batch sizes go, without worrying about getting a whole stomach every time we want to make a couple of cheeses.

Second:

• implement rennet as its own step, and change current curdling recipe to use it instead of stomachs directly.
• • 1 stomach and 1 Liter of salt water + vinegar , strained, to produce 1 L of rennet.
• • 4.5L milk + 3ml rennet = curdled milk == 9 hard cheeses.
• • On full utilization of the extracted rennet ~3000 cheeses from one stomach (assuming I've done all my math right)... yeah, 1L rennet + 1600L milk = 3200 cheeses

Third:

• something of a compromise between the other two approaches. Create a new item ("vell" might be a good historical term, but its not quite accurate, and who actually would know it? "Vell strips"? "Rennet" or "Rennet Paste" might work just as well.)... that can be made from a stomach, effectively portioning the stomach (and similar but with different yield amounts for a large stomach) into, say 20 "vells". then the curdled milk recipe just changes to use 1 "vell" instead of 1 stomach, and we go from there.
• I like the simplicity, and it meets my requirements for stretching the utility of a stomach. but I'm not sure its a good approach. Might be able to get the same effect by tailoring the specifics of the "rennet" method to get the same effect.

[brianAckermann]

Related conversation from 7 years ago: #12852

[Sathra225]

Just went on a journey of trying to find out why wild herbs could be used for the recipe for curdling milk. Seems you can make 'vegetable rennet' from thistles or nettles (I assume its meant to be nettles for the game region). Rhubarb can be used too.
Thing is, vegetable rennet doesn't make hard cheese. Its a soft cheese more like ricotta at best, cream cheese at worst. Though I don't know much about cheese due to being dairy intolerant so a bunch of the names and comparisons were just words.

[Zireael07]

Related: Bright Nights fork had a cheese making overhaul recently too

[DIBAOS]

For now we still need a fermenting vat (which need plank and nails) to make brew and vinegar (so yeast), can we have the alternative with clay jar, rags and clays to seal？

[LoganSan]

What do you think about allow player craft "makeshift steam engine" or anything else engines except sail, paddles and small electro engines? Or maybe add recipe for foot crank?

[LoganSan]

Food processor need electronic scrap for craft. Food processor needed for rubber cement and it needed for part of winter clothes.. Can you look at rework recipe for food processor and give it the version with "makeshift tramsformer"?
Almost for vehicle kitchen unit player cant craft "cast-iron fryuind pan". What do you think about add this recipe?

[Light-Wave]

I implemented your requests in PR #58213

[NetSysFire]

I have bad news for y'all. I did some research and it appears buckwheat is not native to New England. Someone confused it with wild buckwheat which is not nearly as useful. Same problem like with the peanut bushes, groundnuts are native to New England but peanuts are not.
So there is a chance it might vanish from the forage item group, but a PR I am working on adds groundnuts which are also pretty nutritious.

Edit: Hmm. It appears it might be in the wilds but I need to do some more research. https://gobotany.nativeplanttrust.org/species/fagopyrum/esculentum/

[Sathra225]

The groundnuts being peanuts might be a case of confusion with names, as 'groundnuts' is an alternative name for peanuts as well. Though they might occur as invasive species like common and tartary buckwheat.
I'd like to add my annoyance at there being an entire plant Family known as buckwheats while only a small number (maybe just 2) are any kind of starch crop.

Though for Innawoods it shouldn't matter much anyways if they are native or not as the location is pretty vague and getting flour from nuts isn't a massive pain now that bulk-shelling is possible. Plus wild corn.

[Light-Wave]

Well that would be unfortunate. Buckwheat is a great crop for Innawood runs.

As for where the mod takes place, my idea is that it's the New England region of a version of Earth where humanity never existed. I'd like to call the region New New England. Some plants, animals, and people from our world are starting to show up due to portal storms, but non-native plants would not be widely established by the start of the game.

Then again, I also want the mod to stay pretty close to vanilla wilderness survival, but playable without looting. So I think due to gameplay reasons, I would not remove wild buckwheat from the mod specifically. But if you think wild buckwheat shouldn't appear in New England in the base game and get rid of it, then I wouldn't add it back in to Innawood.

As for wild corn, I haven't seen any from foraging in my runs. Is it possible to get without raiding a giant insect nest? If so, it would make a good alternative.

[Sathra225]

The wild corn was my addition a while ago that added natural spawns of cannabis, cotton, pumpkins, sugarbeet, beans and corn. They function like dandelions and such, and use chamomile, dandelion or mustard sprites. Would be nice for them to have their own sprites though.

[NetSysFire]

I wonder if this mod could also be compatible with TropiCataclysm

[Light-Wave]

Been looking into this a bit. My first thought was to make both mods use region_overlay instead. However, both mods modify certain map fields such as f_region_weed, and I'm not sure that can be easily merged automatically.

Furthermore, TropiCataclysm modifies overmap_connection, making roads able to cross deserts. Meanwhile, Innawood also modifies this to make roads unable to cross any terrain at all. So that would need to be solved.

I think the sanest way to make the mods compatible would be to convert both mods from using region_settings to using region_overlay, and then creating a bridge mod (InnaTropicalWood?) that has its own region_overlay that handles fields that both mods tries to alter, and that also makes sure roads are disabled.

An alternative would be to in mainline region_settings add fields for Innawood and TropiCataclysm to modify. For example, both want to modify t_region_groundcover, so maybe the code in mainline could be something like this
"t_region_groundcover": { "t_grass": 12, "t_grass_dead": 2, "t_dirt": 1, "t_region_groundcover_innawood": 1, "t_region_groundcover_TropiCataclysm": 1 }, "t_region_groundcover_innawood": { "t_grass": 1 }, t_region_groundcover_TropiCataclysm": { "t_grass": 1 },
And then each mod could overwrite their own list.
Furthermore, mainline could have a dummy-terrain for desert and make roads able to cross it. That should fix the road issue.
Not sure if we want to have code that only deals with mod-compatibility between these two mods in mainline, or if this even would work, though.

[Light-Wave]

Alternatively, if we could get the functionality from #48589, it should be far easier to manage without a bridge mod and without strange placeholder code in mainline.

[Light-Wave]

Created a draft for a solution here: #58727
Ran into a bug with region_overlay and weather that prevents this solution from working right now. Also creates a bit of a mess in mainline. But perhaps it's a good enough solution if the bug gets addressed?

[NetSysFire]

I did some quick research on primitive armors. It appears that there was actually an ancient suit of bone armor (found in Omsk. Think of it like splintmail but with strips of bone. See https://siberiantimes.com/science/casestudy/features/warriors-3900-year-old-suit-of-bone-armour-unearthed-in-omsk/

Then there is also native american armor, which is mostly leather and wood: https://gestaseptentrionalis.blogspot.com/2018/10/some-trivia-about-armor.html

And last but not least, native mesoamerican armor: https://pintsofhistory.com/2011/08/10/mesoamerican-cotton-armor-better-than-steel/
This mostly describes a single form which is leather and fabric combined into a tough armor.

The first two are rather primitive and could be made with lower levels of fabrication or tailoring (e.g the rawhide stuff). The mesoamerican leather/fabric armor would require more tailoring skill but is also much more efficient and stronger overall and could be a good mid- to endgame armor.

[Sathra225]

Been thinking over ways to get washing soda in Innawoods (due to it being very useful for a number of recipes like lye) but the best I can think of is adding deposits of minerals to hot springs like bog iron. Or boulders.
Thoughts?

[Light-Wave]

Well that chemistry update really messed up my mod. :(
But that's okay, I guess.

It does indeed seem like mineral deposits would be the reasonable path forward. They could be found commonly around hot springs and more uncommonly in swamps, since that swamps contain salt water.
It could also be a rare drop from boulders, caves, and stone walls. But if there are deposits in the world as well, maybe the drop chance should be fairly low to encourage players to go out and explore swamps or hot springs if they need large amounts of it.
Another source seems to be burning salt-tolerant plants such as kelp. But I don't think oceans are implemented, so that wouldn't work for us.
So yeah, I would say put a lot of deposits around hot springs, put some in swamps, and make it a rare drop from boulders, caves, and stone walls.

[Sathra225]

Hmm, getting prisoners out of the Mi-Go towers is troublesome. The cages require either mining or a heavy sledgehammer with 12+ strength, and the heavy sledge isn't autolearn. Mining them with a pickaxe is also likely to result in death due to the extreme temperatures.
I managed to get one prisoner out largely due to luck it seems, and have gotten him to do the mining as NPC's are immune to temperature.
Thoughts?

[MaybeNotACow]

Question: would it be possible to install a Clay Car Battery as an 'appliance'? I'd very much like to make a standing lamp, and power it with a Clay Car Battery. I've tried on my own to figure out how to implement it, but so far I haven't had any luck with it.

In any case, love the mod, thank you for all the hard work to all involved :)

[Sathra225]

Done with #59784

[Light-Wave]

Thanks!

[MaybeNotACow]

Big big thanks!

[NetSysFire]

While doing unrelated research I found out about https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rushlight - it might fit into Innawood (and also the main game) perfectly.

[Light-Wave]

I never figured out how to make them mechanically distinct from candles in an interesting way. Perhaps they could find a niche if candles were much harder to produce and slightly better/more efficient, and rushlights gets the current candle recipe and effect?

[Sathra225]

Yeah, there's no particularly interesting way to do them. If the in-game candles were solidifed tallow in a jar that could be interesting, but I don't think the game can handle stuff changing into another item (to get the jar back) instead of a variant.
Torches are meant to turn into 'burnt out torch' when their fuel is out, but they don't for some reason.

[RojasRakes]

Hi, I was just wondering, under recipes > weapon > ranged, some of the weapon recipes seem to be using regular cooking tongs as a tool as opposed to the metal working tongs, may I make a pull request to adjust this recipe to use the metal working tongues?

[Light-Wave]

Sure thing!

[viniaragon]

Hello everyone!

For those looking to tweak the map generation in the Innawood mod, here’s a quick tip on how to enable city and road placement during overmap generation in the game. You'll need to edit the game_balance.json file located at:

CDDA\data\mods\innawood\game_balance.json

Inside the file, you’ll find the following entries:

[ { "type": "EXTERNAL_OPTION", "name": "OVERMAP_PLACE_CITIES", "info": "Allows to place cities during overmap generation.", "stype": "bool", "value": false }, { "type": "EXTERNAL_OPTION", "name": "OVERMAP_PLACE_ROADS", "info": "Allows to place procgen roads during overmap generation.", "stype": "bool", "value": false } ]

To enable these features, simply change the "value" from false to true for both options.

Hope this helps!

[NetSysFire]

I feel like this does defeat the purpose of innawood though.

[viniaragon]

I understand that the essence of Innawood lies in surviving a ruthless world devoid of any civilization. However, I believe that the wealth of intriguing content added by Innawood might go to waste for those who prefer playing with some semblance of civilization.

Therefore, I propose that a “stripped-down” version of the mod could appeal to a wide audience—many players would appreciate it. 🌲🔥

[NetSysFire]

There used to be the rural mapgen mod. Last time I checked it was broken because it wasnt updated and towns were all gas and police stations.